Smart Grid - All Comments

Can the Home Area Network (HAN) help eliminate rolling blackouts?

Smart Grid Blog — Fri, 01 Jun 2012 05:04:18 GMT

Smart meters are being deployed throughout the US. In Dallas, our Transmission & Distribution company

Green Button initiative to provide energy consumption insights to consumers

Smart Grid Blog — Fri, 01 Jun 2012 04:59:01 GMT

Smart meters are being deployed throughout the US. In Dallas, our Transmission & Distribution company

Turn Off Those Lights When You Leave Work Today

PaulWestbrook — Mon, 13 Feb 2012 19:45:15 GMT

Great analysis. Automation is not yet down to the individual level, so behavior and habits can still have a big impact on energy use. If we could submeter the energy use of every office and send empooyees their bill directly I suspect behavior would change very fast. Right now we are benefiting from very low electric rates because of the depressed price of natural gas, but rates will spike back up at some point.

Also, because these items produce waste heat, for every Watt of energy you use directly, it takes an additional 0.2 Watts to remove the waste heat from the office.

A few easy steps:

1. Turn off task lights unless you need them. Many people turn them on out of habit.

2. We should be moving toward centralized printers, but if you have a desktop printer turn it off until you need it.

3. Make sure your computer is set to sleep when not in use. Screen savers might save screens, but they use a lot of energy.

So you just bought a new car ... did you also buy 4,000 gallons of gas?

Ken Farrington — Wed, 29 Sep 2010 20:51:25 GMT

Ian, thanks for your comments. I didn't know Nissan is planning to lease the Leaf batteries with customers outside the US. As you said, it will be interesting to see where they have the most success.

Cameron, I agree standardization would help drive costs down but I think there are at least 2 forces resisting this and both are coming from the carmakers. The first is their natural interest to protect a differentiating/core component of the vehicle. Today we don't have interchangeable engines or transmissions so I'm not sure battery packs will break that trend. Second is liability. Remember the notebook battery problems that surfaced a few years ago - I believe some were caused by aftermarket replacement packs that didn't meet the OEM specs and safety standards. I don't think the carmakers are going to let a similar thing happen with EV battery packs.

I would hope, however, that within each carmaker, they standardize on the mini-packs used to create the larger battery packs for each car line so that they can leverage the volume across all their EV and hybrid vehicles and so that battery pack repairs are easier/cheaper to make.

Paul, I think your battery life concern will probably be the main reason people "almost bought" an EV over the next few years. They might be comfortable with the range and cost, but if you "own" that battery, they will eventually wonder "what will I do when the battery warranty is about to expire?" - their resale value will be in an ugly freefall ... unless, of course, they are leasing the battery pack :)

So you just bought a new car ... did you also buy 4,000 gallons of gas?

PaulWestbrook — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 14:10:27 GMT

To me the biggest concern is still battery life. The genius of the Prius was the way the engineers decided to operate the battery (a NiMH battery) in a tight range of around 40%-80%. By not overcharging or overtaxing the battery they greatly extended the life and offered a full 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty to aleviate concerns.

The Lithium Ion batteries in the full electric cars will be taxed much harder and the real world lifetime is a little less certain.

Ian, my experience with the second generation Prius has been excellent. Consumer Reports analysis over the years show it as one of the top value cars out there. I did wait a few months for delivery, but didn't overpay. My lifetime mpg is over 53. Maintenance costs have been very low. My data is at www.enerjazz.com/prius

Power Line Communications (PLC) on a Worldwide Tour

Energy Blog — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 21:42:04 GMT

Last month, Olivier Monnier described the challenges of power line communications technology and the

So you just bought a new car ... did you also buy 4,000 gallons of gas?

Cameron Hazel — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 20:00:45 GMT

Ken,

I'm going to have to agree with you for the most part on this one. If potential buyers knew when purchasing an EV that they were paying for their energy upfront, it might seem more feasible for some to invest in their energy consumption now (assuming it is cheaper now versus later).

The proposition to lease the battery would also pose an interesting situation from a supplier and competitor standpoint. By leasing the battery, it may potentially open the door for more than one battery manufacturer to supply batteries for each EV (i.e. the Leaf for now, but certainly more will be joining it). Not only could this drive the cost of the batteries down due to competition, demand, and production, but it might be able to push OEMs to pursue a common form factor so that a single battery might fit in more than one EV. As previously discussed, Better Place has been the early adopter of this idea as they've purchased numerous Leaf batteries in their effort to integrate into Israel's infrastructure with their battery swapping concept. For now, they'll be the guinea pigs in their experiment to see if that option is truly practical. From a charger perspective, this might also push the EV charging market in a very different direction...

Either way, there will most definitely be a great opportunity to get as much silicon into these cars as possible!

-Cam

So you just bought a new car ... did you also buy 4,000 gallons of gas?

Ian Bower — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 19:37:05 GMT

Even though Nissan is leasing batteries in the rest of the world, they are not planning to do so in the U.S., from what I hear. Apparently we want to own our own batteries.

I think that people are smart enough to know that higher initial costs can be offset by lower fuel costs. I think sometimes people tend to use this as an excuse to get something they really want anyway, like a diesel for their pickup truck. Even when the savings aren't really there with careful analysis.

I thought about buying the original Prius, for example, but decided not to. It was based on the Toyota Echo, and Consumer reports got exactly 1 mile per gallon more in their real world tests of the Prius than they did with the Echo. But enough people paid the extra $10K and waited 6 months for the Prius anyway. And at that point the Echo was only $10K itself. So people paid double for 1 real world mile per gallon. And it was, if I recall correctly, 38 vs. 39 miles per gallon. Not a real big savings.

So I'm not so sure about this batteries not included approach. Nissan will try it in the rest of the world, so we can see what happens.

The problem with Electric Vehicles … the word “Electric”

Ken Farrington — Wed, 25 Aug 2010 14:33:19 GMT

Ian, it's funny you mention golf carts because that topic is already on my list of future blog posts so stay tuned. And if you do decide to get a Leaf, I'd love to get a ride and blog about the experience! On a more serious note, I am concerned about the rumors of a $20K dealer mark-up for the Leaf - that would be a major party killer for the early adopters.

Bill, I have the same concerns as you do regarding "the battery" - it is also on my blogging list. I also think your point about improved acceleration (due to the electric motor assist) will be one of those positives that will eventually sway people to buy a hybrid over a non-hybrid as the price difference narrows or disappears completely as is the case now with the 2011 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid.

Paul, holy cow! that's some impressive data on your 2 Prius' - www.enerjazz.com/prius . I particularly like the metric "Time Saved Not Stopping for Gas" - good one :) I also agree with your point that the batteries are not quite ready for prime time. I've seen a forecast or two suggesting a glut of Li-ion batteries on the market around the 2015 timeframe so battery pack costs should be much lower. Then the only remaining significant barrier will be charging times with the goal being to duplicate the gas station exprience - the 4 minute fill-up!

Ken

The problem with Electric Vehicles … the word “Electric”

PaulWestbrook — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 13:12:04 GMT

Ken, I think you're on to a better name - the "cordless vehicle."

We are a 3 Prius household. I got a Prius in 2004 (after a 5 month wait on the list). I knew more about the car than the sales staff. My wife picked up one in 2006. My daughter started driving earlier this year so I handed down the 2004 to her and picked up a used 2007 for me.

The car certainly appealed to the engineer in me, but the roominess, hatchback flexibility, and overall value were the real hooks. Averaging 53.6 mpg has been quite a money saver and the car has been very reliable. I've got a load of data posted at www.enerjazz.com/prius.

I've been following electric vehicles and I still worry that the batteries are not ready for prime time. The genius of the Prius was keeping the NiMH battery operating in the 40%-80% range to extend the life, then offering a full 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty. Full electric (or cordless) cars will tax their batteries much harder which is bound to shorten their life. I know a lot of folks are working on the lithium-ion (and a few other chemistry) batteries. Good energy storage is still a gating item.

The problem with Electric Vehicles … the word “Electric”

Bill Winderweedle — Mon, 23 Aug 2010 21:56:24 GMT

I don't know that I will be looking for a straight electric, primarily due to the range limitation. I have some scouting trips with my son that are longer than 400 miles. I doubt that present eletric vehicles can reliably give this range with a fully loaded vehicle and full time air conditioning that we need here in Texas.

I am in my second hybrid vehicle. I had a 2006 Toyota Hybrid Highlander that I traded in for a 2010 Toyota Hybrid Highlander late last year. For trade-in, I received half of what I paid for it in 2005 ($19.5K vs. $39K). 50% depreciation was not bad for a 4 year old car.

I have to wonder what the depreciation will be for pure electric vehicles, especially as they near the end of the battery warranty. More competition will be needed or this could be an issue. For drivers that like to keep their cars until the wheels fall off, they could be looking at expensive replacement batteries.

The improved gas mileage was only one reason for buying the hybrid. When I feel like stomping on it, I enjoy the instant 50 horsepower performance boost.

Tesla has a sub 4 second 0-60 electric roadster, but $100K is a little out of my budget.

Regards,

Bill W.

The problem with Electric Vehicles … the word “Electric”

Ian Bower — Mon, 23 Aug 2010 21:41:34 GMT

I've always wanted an electric vehicle, ever since I rode in the golf carts with car bodies on them at the open house where my dad worked - Westinghouse Electric Research and Development. That was in the 60's. I looked at some Jet Industries left-overs in the 90's that were offered for sale. I test drove a couple - they weren't ready for prime time. I've owned an electric bike. I looked at hybrids but wasn't impressed by the value proposition, especially for my 28 mile, 3 stop light, 3 stop sign commute. I bought a CNG car instead.

At least on paper, the Nissan Leaf looks like I want one. I think there are enough early adopters who want an electric car to get things started, just like there were enough early adopters to get the hybrids started before the boom of 2008.

I have read articles that said that the Prius outsold things like the Honda Civic Hybrid because it was more recognizable as a hybrid. In California, the HOV sticker has also played some role, and it is gone now from the hybrids.

There is definitely an energy crisis cycle, even less predictable than most business cycles, that will have a big impact on electric vehicle acceptance. We'll just have to wait and see.