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TINA/Spice/LMH7322: Convergence issue with Comparator

Part Number: LMH7322
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: TINA-TI, , THS3092

Tool/software: TINA-TI or Spice Models

Trying to compare a signal using the LMH7322 and having trouble making it converge. 

I downloaded the TINA-TI model from the TI Website and it was encrypted. However, I was told that I should be able to use encrypted models in TINA-TI without issue. However, as I said in the title, I am having convergence problems. I do not believe I have anything connected incorrectly, please advise! 

Thanks, 

Xavier

attached is the simulation file. Resonant Filter Board design.TSC

  • Xavier,

    A couple of minor edits and the circuit seems to converge now.
    The initial sim after downloading the circuit gave an error. It looks like the THS3092 models in your schematic were corrupted.
    Replacing those with a copy-and-paste from the online THS3092 reference circuit seemed to fix that problem.

    After replacing the THS3092 models, the convergence problem appeared. 
    Three changes seemed to help. They are included in the attached schematic 

    1. TINA complained about a convergence error for a diode in the amp driving the diodes (U5 in the attached schematic).The diode mentioned in the error message was part of that model's output stage. On a hunch, a 100 ohm resistor was placed between the amp output pin and the diode D2. The rationale is that the simulator has trouble converging when the model drives a raw diode because of excessive current. The additional resistor will limit the device's output current. It may need to be tweaked for your application.
    2. The THS3092 is a current-feedback part, so it needs to have some kind of feedback resistor.
      A 500 ohm resistor was added between the diode D3 and that device's inverting pin.
      I'm not sure if your design will need the gain resulting from this change, but its a start.
    3. When starting the first transient sim, Zero Initial Values was chosen, That was changed to Find Calculate Operating Point.

    Please let me know if you have any questions.

    Regards,
    John

    Resonant Filter Board design_Revd.TSC

  • I typed up a reply to this before but I think I may have deleted it by accident? Unclear.

    I actually managed to get the file to converge without adding the feedback resistor by changing the shunt conductance from 0 to 1uS, which is a tip I found on another thread somewhere.

    1. Limiting the current out of the amplifier makes sense, but to me it looks like there is a resistor series with the diodes in all possible current paths? Maybe I am missing something.

    2. Ah... I seemed to have made a very poor assumption that CFA and VFA behave about the same. If my application is a precision rectifier with unity gain, might I be better off just switching to a VFA? That seems to be the case... I didn't realize the use cases for CFA were quite so specific.

    3. Interesting, does changing that allow the simulation to converge more easily? My thoughts were that "Zero Initial Values" was more similar to real world. Is that incorrect?

    Thanks for all of your help, John

    Xavier
  • Xavier,

    1. I suggested placing the resistor at the amp output because the convergence error had to do with the model's output stage. I think it also indicates that the real device would struggle to drive highly nonlinear loads like diodes. For high-speed amplifiers its good design practice to include some resistance between the output pin and a reactive or nonlinear load. This is because high-speed amps have high bandwidths - and sometimes lower compensation - and can become unstable because of phase shifts caused by tan unisolated load. A convergence error in a simulator can sometimes hint at possible instabilities in the real device.  I am pretty sure that is the case here.

    2. CFAs are different from VFAs in that the CFB feedback resistor also helps provide compensation/stability. That's why CFBs are not generally used in voltage-follower configurations. If you want to preserve the topology of your circuit it might be best to consider switching that amplifier to a VFA. The other amp might be okay staying a CFB - it didn't seem to have any problems during simulation.

    3. The need to start with zero initial values or calculate an initial operating point for a transient sim can depend on a lot of things: the models, the circuit, the types of devices, the sim analysis parameters, etc. If you get a convergence error at the beginning of the transient sim, its best to try changing that selection to see if it allows the sim to proceed. However, always check the behavior during the sim and the results to see if they make sense.
    From the perspective of a real circuit, the devices will have to be at acceptable operating points before the circuit will work.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards,

    John