• Join
  • Sign In with my.TI Login
Texas Instruments
  • Products
  • Applications
  • Tools & Software
  • Support & Community
  • Sample & Buy
  • About TI
Sample & Purchase Cart Sample & Purchase Cart
  • Search
  • Advanced
TI E2E™ Community
  • Support Forums
  • Blogs
  • Groups
  • Videos
  • 简体中文
  • More ...
TI Home » TI E2E Community » Support Forums » Development Tools » WEBENCH® Design Center » Signal Chain/Signal Path Tools Forum » Gain values reported wrong for high-pass MFB filters >2 poles
Share
WEBENCH® Design Center
  • Forums
  • Announcements
  • Files
  • E2E Wiki
Options
  • Subscribe via RSS

Forums

Gain values reported wrong for high-pass MFB filters >2 poles

This question is not answered
Harvey Wiggins
Posted by Harvey Wiggins
on Apr 12 2012 23:12 PM
Prodigy30 points

Gain values reported are wrong for high-pass MFB filters >2 poles.  For exmaple, a G=50 4-pole design reports each 2-pole stage gain as 7.071 where as it is far different than that.  There does not appear to be a pattern to the actual gains vs the reported gains.  Very confusing and disappinting.

Report Abuse
  • Reply
You have posted to a forum that requires a moderator to approve posts before they are publicly available.
All Replies
  • Rick Downs - WEBENCH Design Center
    Posted by Rick Downs - WEBENCH Design Center
    on Apr 13 2012 10:49 AM
    Expert5510 points

    Harvey,

    You may need to give me a more specific example if gains are being reported wrong. But if you have two stages, each with a gain of 7.071, then the overall gain of the filter is 7.071*7.071 = 49.999041, which I'd say is pretty close to 50. FilterPro generally tries to evenly distribute gain amongst stages (an observation, I don't recall the actual algorithm, it may also factor Q in there where doing gain distribution).

    If you can share a design with me that shows the wrong behavior, I'd like to investigate.

    Report Abuse
    • Reply
    You have posted to a forum that requires a moderator to approve posts before they are publicly available.
  • Harvey Wiggins
    Posted by Harvey Wiggins
    on Apr 18 2012 02:02 AM
    Prodigy30 points
    HP-800Hz-G50-4pole.pdf

    Rick,

    Attached is a design for a filter that is High-pass, 800 Hz, Gain 50, MFB, 4 poles (2 stages).  Look at the synthesized resistor values and calculate the stage gains.  They are not .7071, and the product does not equal 50.  I did the same design at 6 poles, 3 stages, and on that one at least the product of stage gains is correct but the stage gains are reported wrong. 

    Obviously the stage gains and total gain could be reported from the synthesized values.  Don't know where the values shown came from ??  Something is drastically wrong in that part of the synthesizer.

    Thanks, Harvey

    Report Abuse
    • Reply
    You have posted to a forum that requires a moderator to approve posts before they are publicly available.
  • Rick Downs - WEBENCH Design Center
    Posted by Rick Downs - WEBENCH Design Center
    on Apr 18 2012 11:26 AM
    Expert5510 points

    Harvey,

    Short of doing the math to find the transfer functions of each stage (which I'll leave to you), I built the circuit in TINA-TI, which you can download from http://www.ti.com/tina-ti. I've attached the TINA circuit:

    2781.hpfilterg50.tsc

    Using real op amps, you don't quite get the gain of 50, but it's close:

    Using real op amps instead of ideal (and I just chose a FDA sort of at random, so may not be the ideal choice), there is a gain error, but you'll note that each stage has a gain of about 6.6. Is that "drastically wrong"? Perhaps, but some tuning is often needed and that's where TINA-TI can be a big help.

    FilterPro 3 TINA-TI
    Report Abuse
    • Reply
    You have posted to a forum that requires a moderator to approve posts before they are publicly available.
TI E2E™ Community
  • Support Forums
  • Blogs
  • Videos
  • Groups
  • Site Support & Feedback
  • Settings
TI E2E™ Community Groups
  • TI University Program
  • Make the Switch
  • Microcontroller Projects
  • Motor Drive & Control
Other Communities
  • Deyisupport
  • Designsomething.org
  • beagleboard.org
  • TI on Element 14
  • TI on TechXchangeSM
Other Technical & Support Resources
  • WEBENCH® Design Center
  • Product Information Centers
  • Technical Documents
  • TI Design Network
  • TI Technical Articles
  • TI Training

All content and materials on this site are provided "as is". TI and its respective suppliers and providers of content make no representations about the suitability of these materials for any purpose and disclaim all warranties and conditions with regard to these materials, including but not limited to all implied warranties and conditions of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, title and non-infringement of any third party intellectual property right. TI and its respective suppliers and providers of content make no representations about the suitability of these materials for any purpose and disclaim all warranties and conditions with respect to these materials. No license, either express or implied, by estoppel or otherwise, is granted by TI. Use of the information on this site may require a license from a third party, or a license from TI.

Content on this site may contain or be subject to specific guidelines or limitations on use. All postings and use of the content on this site are subject to the Terms of Use of the site; third parties using this content agree to abide by any limitations or guidelines and to comply with the Terms of Use of this site. TI, its suppliers and providers of content reserve the right to make corrections, deletions, modifications, enhancements, improvements and other changes to the content and materials, its products, programs and services at any time or to move or discontinue any content, products, programs, or services without notice.

Follow Us Texas Instruments on Facebook Texas Instruments on Twitter Texas Instruments on LinkedIn Texas Instruments on Google+
TI Worldwide | Contact Us | my.TI Login | Site Map | Corporate Citizenship | mobile m.ti.com (Mobile Version)

TI is a global semiconductor design and manufacturing company. Innovate with 100,000+ analog ICs and
embedded processors, along with software, tools and the industry’s largest sales/support staff.

© Copyright 1995-2013 Texas Instruments Incorporated. All rights reserved.
Trademarks | Privacy Policy | Terms of Use