F28M36x Concerto Control Card

Larry,

Schematic diagrams and board layouts are included in controlSUITE.

Regards,

Bernard

Bernard,

    I just downloaded the lastest ControlSuite and there's no mention of the Concerto F28M36x, even though they are promoting it on the website.  The only Concerto in ControlSuite is the F28M35x, which has been there for a long time.  I'm not sure why the folder is labeled (NEW!).

    This is the typical sloppiness we have come to expect from this group.  They are selling the wine before its time!

    But thanks anyway, Bernard, for trying to help.  I appreciate your response.

Regards,

Larry

Larry,

We had some issues getting the F28M36x hardware updates (like the cCARD, etc) into controlSUITE on time.  Expect a new cSUITE update early this week which contains the F28M36x hardware data.

I'm sorry for any inconvenience.


Thank you,
Brett

The update was pushed today.  Hope you found what you needed Larry.   I regret the inconvenience.

-Lori

Lori,

    Thanks.  I downloaded ControlSuite, again.  Again, there was nothing on the F28M36x.  Again, your website is promoting it.

    I too have a job to do and a schedule to meet.  Fortunately, I have alternatives.

    Don't need any more apologies.  Just wish you would stop wasting our time by designating products as "Active" while they are still "Vapor."

Larry

Larry,

I agree and regret this.  I will look into why it is not showing up. 

Regards

Lori

Larry,

If you downloaded the full .zip there is some delay between the push and when it shows up on the web.  I should have mentioned this in my original post.   I'll check it later today to see if it has updated.

Regards

Lori

Lori,

    Thank you, so much, for your persistent follow-up on this.  I will update my copy of ControlSuite as soon as time permits.   At this time, we have decided to give the Concerto product a little more time to mature.  We will definitely reconsider it in the future.

Best Regards,

Larry

We recently purchased the TMDXDOCK28M36 and  I am having issue getting supporting documetns from Control Suite 3.1.2. I did locate teh schematic for the 180 pin docking station but not the cCard. Also when i select any of the 3 .pdf files in the documentation folder under the Concerto F28M36x I get a "can not be displayed messge" (this does not happen with the other .pdfs in Control Suite). Can some one point me in the right direction on getting these documents? There was also a single page flier that said to run Quick Start Guide or user's guide from Control Suite these are also not available. I have been trying to follow the F28M35x examples but they are a bit out of date with the latest Code Composer that i downloaded.

Galen,

I'm looking at the 3.1.1 install, so let me know if documents don't exist where I'm pointing you to...

1) Where are the schematics and supporting documents?
[BL] 180pin Docking Station schematics:
\controlSUITE\development_kits\~ExperimentersKits\120or180pin_HSEC_DockingStn-HWdevPkg_v1_0\R4_1\

[BL] F28M36 controlCARD schematics:
\controlSUITE\development_kits\~controlCARDs\TMDSCNCD28M36_v1_0\R1_1\

2) pdf files can 'not be displayed
[BL] Can you point me to where these 'broken' files are?

3) Where are examples for the F28M36?
[BL] Examples should exist at the following directory.  Note that our group is working on editing a few of the examples so that the work more seamlessly with the controlCARD (such as the ENET, USB, and uSD card examples)
\controlSUITE\device_support\f28m36x\

4) Where is the QSG?
[BL] Can you point me to the source document that you're referencing?


Thank you,
Brett

Here is a screen shot of the broken files. Based on the other answer i guess i should not have relied on the UI to link to all the installed files.

The document that i am referring to as part of question 4 is SPRT604A titled C2000 Microcontrollers Development Tools User Guide.

Thanks,

Galen

Galen,

The screenshot didn't attach.

I'll start looking into the questions you posed.


Thanks,
Brett

Galen,

1 + 3) Thanks for reporting the issues with the cSUITE GUI.  I'll put in a bug request to get this fixed.

2) Please send a screenshot when able.

4) I talked to our marketing team and it appears the SPRT604 document is from 2011 and is no longer live on the web.  I would call it obsolete.  If you let me know where you found this, I will make sure it is removed.


Thank you,
Brett

0753.ScreenshotforTI.docx

Here is the screen shot. The SPRT604A came in the box with the control card and docking PCB. Perhaps the change request did not make it all the way down stream to stop inserting the document prior to shipping.

Regards,

Galen

Galen,

We will fix these issues.


Thanks again for reporting,
Brett

Lori,

I searched my disk for this string:  TMDSCNCD28M36_v1_0 - not found.

Can you tell me where I can download these files?

Thanks,
johnw 

johnw said:

Lori,

I searched my disk for this string:  TMDSCNCD28M36_v1_0 - not found.

Can you tell me where I can download these files?

Thanks,
johnw 

John - take a look here:

controlSUITE\development_kits\~controlCARDs\TMDSCNCD28M36_v1_0\R1_1\

-L

First of all, I would like to explain that I became aware of the TI Concerto microcontrollers in the last few days, because I was really disappointed of the bad docs and support at Microchip. TI marketing is doing a good job, uploading good teaching videos about their devices and promising turn key boards & kits bundled together with TI RTOS. Wow - you think until you see the details:.

First I was very confused that there were no online docs for the Concerto kits. Normally one expects to see a manual containing at least 100 pages explaining the features of such complex kits. Well, then I found out that I have to download the huge controlSUITE. After installing and wasting so much time and space I found out that it is a complete mess. The Concerto control cards / kits (if they are there at all!) are briefly explained on a couple of "infosheet" pages, not even mentioning what components they actually include. What is actually the difference between the two Concerto control boards F28M35 and F28M36? Do they include the same components? Instead the short docs warn me that the boards have not been actually isolated properly as advertised and contain some other layout issues. And what about TI RTOS? It is not mentioned there at all. Ah, probably it is the other huge download. I don't understand what the purpose of this controlSUITE is if it is not up to date and there are no good docs inside. Actually a good website with updated information is doing a much better job.

At this time I am really disappointed about the documentation quality, even worse - there is no documentation at all. Isn't there any quality control regarding such things? Or is it all just marketing? Actually, I am really scared to look at the quality of the TI RTOS example projects...

And will this get better in future? Probably not, because in a few months there will be a new product and nobody will care about updating "old" stuff. Why are docs and support only getting worse and worse these days? Please pass this info to your managers if they are interested in improving quality. I am not taking parts in nonsense surveys, instead I am mentioning real problems.

Anguel,

I appreciate the time you have taken to describe the frustrations and issues you have found with our collateral.  We are currently taking a close look at controlSUITE and how it should evolve in the future.  Some customers love the "one stop shop" while others would prefer items to be split out.  Your feedback is valuable to the team as we perform this evaluation and make plans for our future strategy.

Anguel said:

First I was very confused that there were no online docs for the Concerto kits. Normally one expects to see a manual containing at least 100 pages explaining the features of such complex kits. Well, then I found out that I have to download the huge controlSUITE. After installing and wasting so much time and space I found out that it is a complete mess. The Concerto control cards / kits (if they are there at all!) are briefly explained on a couple of "infosheet" pages, not even mentioning what components they actually include. What is actually the difference between the two Concerto control boards F28M35 and F28M36? Do they include the same components? Instead the short docs warn me that the boards have not been actually isolated properly as advertised and contain some other layout issues.

I agree with you.  This information should be readily available.  I will work with the owner of the controlCARDS to provide additional information.  My goal is to have something by the end of business on Tuesday.   I will follow-up before then.

Anguel said:

And what about TI RTOS? It is not mentioned there at all. Ah, probably it is the other huge download. I don't understand what the purpose of this controlSUITE is if it is not up to date and there are no good docs inside. Actually a good website with updated information is doing a much better job.

One thing TI has done in the last year is to enable better search of software on ti.com.  This is still evolving, but you may find this page helpful

http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/microcontroller/32-bit_c2000/software.page

This comes off of the main software page (www.ti.com/software).

This page is a work in progress and we are working to continue to improve it.

Yes - we have chosen to not include the actual download of TI-RTOS in the controlSUITE download.  It would make it even larger and TI-RTOS does support multiple TI platforms.   I hope that you will still give the TI-RTOS consideration. 

In April TI-RTOS will be updated to support the F28M36x (currently it supports the F28M35x).  In addition - around the May timeframe - we will be offering a development board that will connect to the F28M36x controlCARD.  These dates will become more solid in the next few weeks.

Anguel said:

At this time I am really disappointed about the documentation quality, even worse - there is no documentation at all. Isn't there any quality control regarding such things? Or is it all just marketing?

Yes the documentation for this product is being worked on.  I hope you found the technical reference manual for the devices as well as the firmware guides. 

Anguel said:

Please pass this info to your managers if they are interested in improving quality.

Yes we are interested and as a manager, I have heard you.

Regards

Lori

Anguel said:

What is actually the difference between the two Concerto control boards F28M35 and F28M36? Do they include the same components?

Anguel,

I am following up on the above question.    The two controlCARDS have quite a bit in common.    The BOM for each of the cards can be found in controlSUITE as you have already found.

• The device itself is different:

• M36x has more pins and thus more functionality is available

• The connector is 180pin vs the 100pin.

• There is an associated docking station if you want the extra functionality. 
• There is an adapter if you want to use an old dock.

• The ethernet phy chip is another difference.
• There are pinout differences which are documented in the excel spreadsheet attached to this post:

• http://e2e.ti.com/support/microcontrollers/c2000/f/171/t/246459.aspx

Regards

Lori

Lori,

Could you provide a full path to the "full .zip" as you stated.   I'm in a similar situation as the gentleman who posted the original question and I need to update the devices.

Thank you,

Bogdan

Lori:

what this path means? controlSUITE\development_kits\~controlCARDs\TMDSCNCD28M36_v1_0\R1_1\

Is it on your disk or somewhere in a cyberspace?  Please provide a full path if exists.  The fact is that your products are unsupported and the TI support behaves as if we were annoying you.   Stop apologizing and patting us on the back for "good ideas/question.  We will take your suggestions into consideration."  This is a bad joke. Many of us who used to use and praise TI's DSPs and uControllers will have to simply walk away.   If you are not ready with a new product release, simply DON'T.  

Where is the zipped or not zipped but close to complete information for F28M36x:

- supporting target device files

- board (experimenter's kit) configuration files

-gel(s)

-...

Thanks,

Bogdan

Lori,

Thank you for the comments on my post. In the meantime I have looked deeper into the docs and drivers (it really takes time to find and identify the files I really need) and I am really good at such things, believe me. Unfortunately everywhere I look I see problems and inconsistencies. Instead of repeating myself, here are some links to other discussions I have started:

http://e2e.ti.com/support/embedded/bios/f/355/p/246308/862066.aspx

http://www.forum.c2kcentral.com/topic/179-c2000-launchpad-which-ports-are-usable/

In the links above I describe some of the problems I encountered in the last days.

Actually, as I mentioned I had very similar problems with Microchip and I even had very constructive discussions with some of their top managers. I even received some free boards for my feedback. Unfortunately code and documentation quality have not changed much since then and I finally decided to look for another manufacturer. I don't know if big corporations are not able to find good programmers these days or they are just doing too much outsourcing to save some money. Marketing is always doing a good job but what you finally get has nothing to do with the advertised features. Drivers are not well written, missing, inefficient or do not work correctly. For example the C2000 drivers - here we are talking about real-time control for industrial applications or even safety systems. If a big MCU manufacturer is not able to write robust drivers for his products that work 100%, how should a small customer with very few resources do that? This is a safety risk. It scares me to read things like "to be done" in released driver files or to see that docs for a whole module driver like I2C are completely missing in the library guide. Additionally, all C2000 MCUs work in a very similar way, so one well written driver could be reused without modifications.

Regarding documentation or controlSUITE inconsistencies, it should be sufficient to hire some smart students and let them constantly check if things are really working before doing a new release. Then your customers won't be disappointed...

I am sure that if one manufacturer really manages to deliver his MCUs with robust and bug-free drivers and integrate them into his RTOS customers would immediately stick with his products. Unfortunately, I am not aware of such a manufacturer at this time.

Regards,

Anguel

Bogdan Borowy said:

Lori:

what this path means? controlSUITE\development_kits\~controlCARDs\TMDSCNCD28M36_v1_0\R1_1\

Is it on your disk or somewhere in a cyberspace?  Please provide a full path if exists.

Bogdan,

The full path will depend on where controlSUITE was installed (www.ti.com/controlSUITE).  By default it is in C:/ti/controlSUITE. 

Regards

Lori

Bogdan Borowy said:

Could you provide a full path to the "full .zip" as you stated.

Hi Bogdan,

The full zip of controlSUITE is located on this page: http://www.ti.com/tool/controlsuite

The first download is a complete .zip of the whole package.

The 2nd download is an installer that lets you pick and choose a bit more which parts of controlSUITE you would like to download.

Both installs have the M36x information.  I do have a bug noted that the controlSUITE GUI is not showing a link to the controlCARD for F28M36x.  This will be fixed in the next CS update.  The files are located here if you install to the default location.

C:\ti\controlSUITE\development_kits\~controlCARDs\TMDSCNCD28M36_v1_0

Regards

Lori

Anguel said:

I have looked deeper into the docs and drivers (it really takes time to find and identify the files I really need) and I am really good at such things, believe me.

Anguel,

This comment prompted me to spend some time this morning to look at the controlSUITE GUI content to see if it is aiding in finding information or hindering it.  I have identified a a number of places where the links and/or information can be improved.     Out of curiosity were you using the controlSUITE GUI or was there a ti.com page you started with?  Knowing where you started will help me live a bit in your shoes.

Anguel said:

This is a safety risk. It scares me to read things like "to be done" in released driver files or to see that docs for a whole module driver like I2C are completely missing in the library guide. Additionally, all C2000 MCUs work in a very similar way, so one well written driver could be reused without modifications.

I've seen some change in our customer base on this in recent years.  Many safety centered customers never wanted much TI code in their end product just for safety reasons but recently that is changing.  Many other customers wanted code similar to connecting nets.  Instead of focusing on the past, I prefer to look at the future and how these products can evolve moving forward.   Last year we introduced a driver lib for the 28x on the entry line processors and we have similar libs coming out in our upcoming MotorWare offerings.  One of the items on my team's plate for this year is to push out the drivers into the device support for Piccolo and eventually Delfino processors. 

Anguel said:

Regarding documentation or controlSUITE inconsistencies, it should be sufficient to hire some smart students and let them constantly check if things are really working before doing a new release. Then your customers won't be disappointed...

Point taken.

Thank you & Regards

Lori

Lori Heustess said:

This comment prompted me to spend some time this morning to look at the controlSUITE GUI content to see if it is aiding in finding information or hindering it.  I have identified a a number of places where the links and/or information can be improved.     Out of curiosity were you using the controlSUITE GUI or was there a ti.com page you started with?  Knowing where you started will help me live a bit in your shoes.

I don't say that controlSUITE is a very bad idea. The problem is, that it is not kept up to date and some links don't work. In my controlSUITE the training videos also do not show up. Of course another drawback is the big file size we have to download each time and install. Important docs like C2000 lib & fw guides should be also available on your site. Starting at your website I actually found out pretty fast that I have to download controlSUITE as there are many links for it on your site. But on the other hand I had the impression that some additional appnotes were only on the website. Additionally, there is also the TI C2000 wiki which is a third starting point :-) There are simply to many docs and a new visitor does not really know where to start and what docs to read first. A good overview is missing. The idea of online videos is wonderful, but I was disappointed from the C2000 courses. Instead of giving an overview they immediately dive into linker details or boot mode specifics - new users get a TI board and want to write a "Hello World", not to modify the bootloader. Tray German's videos and explanations are good but we need more of them. I think that this will also benefit experienced users who just don't know TI's tools like CCS or the coding style. Do you need a good example for a good starting point? Look at this blog:
http://fortytwoandnow.blogspot.de/2012/08/c2000-piccolo-blinking-led.html
People like Francesco are doing a better job to promote and support your products than anyone else and any controlSUITE or docs :-)

Lori Heustess said:

I've seen some change in our customer base on this in recent years.  Many safety centered customers never wanted much TI code in their end product just for safety reasons but recently that is changing.  Many other customers wanted code similar to connecting nets.  Instead of focusing on the past, I prefer to look at the future and how these products can evolve moving forward.   Last year we introduced a driver lib for the 28x on the entry line processors and we have similar libs coming out in our upcoming MotorWare offerings.  One of the items on my team's plate for this year is to push out the drivers into the device support for Piccolo and eventually Delfino processors. 

I think that everybody needs stable drivers, not only the safety customers. Driver stability should always have highest priority, especially for real-time MCUs. Features are not so important as everything is based on the drivers - if they don't work, why looking further. Another strange thing is that SYS/BIOS is advertised for the C2000. This is very nice but no drivers support thread-safety for SYS/BIOS so it is useless as soon as we need more than just the CPU. I did not find any docs saying that SYS/BIOS is not usable with the C2000 drivers.

Today most devices need USB + Ethernet. Unfortunately without a robust RTOS and compatible reentrant software stacks & drivers this does not work or at least not as reliable and not as easy as dedicated external chips like FTDI or Lantronix. Each time you compile a project there is the risk that something will break. This makes things extremely complex and many people finally just give up. Especially smaller customers would stick with one manufacturer if they can rely on code quality. I think that TI RTOS is a big step in the right direction, it is free and offers everything. The problem again, as also embedded guru Jack Ganssle states here is code quality and reliability: http://www.embedded.com/electronics-blogs/break-points/4403045/An-RTOS-from-TI--Why-

Regards,

Anguel

Hi Lori:

Thank you very much! 

May I ask you a followup question?  I have bought TMDSDOCK29M36 Experimenter's Kit and I have much trouble connecting to the board. There is, unfortunately, no such board, TMDSDOCK29M36 , in the "Board or Device" under Target Configuration (I use CCS v. 5.3 as this is the only one that carries F28M36x).  Trying with just Device F28M36P63C2 and TI XDS100v2 emulator, I receive connection errors.  Test Connnection produces the foolowing set of errors (after reporting successful resetting the controller).

-----[Print the reset-command hardware log-file]-----------------------------

The scan-path will be reset by toggling the JTAG TRST signal. The controller is the FTDI FT2232 with USB interface. The link from controller to target is direct (without cable). The software is configured for FTDI FT2232 features. The controller cannot monitor the value on the EMU[0] pin. The controller cannot monitor the value on the EMU[1] pin. The controller cannot control the timing on output pins. The controller cannot control the timing on input pins. The scan-path link-delay has been set to exactly '0' (0x0000).

-----[The log-file for the JTAG TCLK output generated from the PLL]----------

There is no hardware for programming the JTAG TCLK frequency.

-----[Measure the source and frequency of the final JTAG TCLKR input]--------

There is no hardware for measuring the JTAG TCLK frequency.

-----[Perform the standard path-length test on the JTAG IR and DR]-----------

This path-length test uses blocks of 512 32-bit words.

The test for the JTAG IR instruction path-length failed. The JTAG IR instruction scan-path is stuck-at-ones.

The test for the JTAG DR bypass path-length failed. The JTAG DR bypass scan-path is stuck-at-ones.

----

Ten there is a bunch of failed integriry tests.

Please advise.

Thank you.

Regards,

Bogdan

Regards,

Bogdan

Bogdan,

Choosing the F8M36P63C2 device with the xds100v2 emulator should work and has worked for me previously.

The key things needed to get emulation to work are:
1) both the emulator (USB@A:J1) and the device (via the baseboard's J1 or J17) need to be powered
2) A:SW1's position1 on the cCARD needs to be up (ON)

Hopefully the issue lies there.  If not, we can debug further...


Thank you,
Brett

Hi Brett:

It did work when powered up the dock board, as you said.  I suggest to put this information into the "TMS320F28M36 Concerto controlCARD R1.1 Information Guide." 

Anyway, I wanted to thank you for your guidance.

Regards,

Bogdan

To all,

Attached is the next version (v1.2) of the F28M36x Infosheet document which will get put into controlSUITE in the near future.  I've attached it here in order to help those that are confused and find this post.

Hopefully, this helps to clear up some issues.


Thank you,
Brett

Hi brett,

That info sheet will tells you only switch connections. Can i get the GPIO pin connection of Docking station. I try to trace out the GPIO pins. But i cant find the any documents related to the GPIO pin connection of DOCKING station.

Hello,

This document should help you:
\controlSUITE\development_kits\~controlCARDs\TMDSCNCD28M36_v1_0\R1_1\TMDSCNCD28M36_180cCARD_pinout_v1_0.pdf

The labels on the silkscreen of the Docking station correspond to the HSEC pin column.


Thank you,
Brett

Hi , where exactly in the controlISUITE are schematic diagrams of F28M36 Concerto Control Card ?

Do you know if this kit have a full USB 2.0 interface ? I didn`t find this detail.

Thanks,

Teddy

Hi,

 controlSUITE\development_kits\~controlCARDs\TMDSCNCD28M36_v1_0\R1_1\F28M36x_180controlCARD_R1.1_SCH.pdf