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High Frequncy Signal Injection based Sensorless control

ravikumar setty
Intellectual 310 points
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: CONTROLSUITE, MOTORWARE, LVSERVOMTR, DRV8301-69M-KIT, TMDSHVMTRINSPIN, DRV8312

Dear TI team,

As I understand  High Frequency Signal Injection (HFSI) based techniques are robust to extract position enough information from low speed to zero speed.

I would like to implement  PMSM sensorless control from low speed to zero speed using HFSI technique to derive rotor position information .

When browsed through TI website , I found following kit has , Library based software for latest software observer and high frequency injection initial position detection techniques.

http://www.ti.com/tool/TMDSHVMTRPFCKIT

I could not find such library in Controlsuite , can some body help me where from  I can download this library.

Thanks

RK

  • 0
    Guru 20525 points

    Hello,

    if you pay attention to comments within ti\controlSUITE\development_kits\HVMotorCtrl+PfcKit_v2.1\HVPM_Enhanced_Sensorless_2803x\HVPM_Enhanced_Sensorless.c, you can find the following:

    The executable for Initial Position Detection (IPD) and *
    * High Frequency Injection (HFI) are in hfi.lib file, which are not *
    * part of the downloadable version of control suite. *
    * Any attempt to build LEVEL8/9 code will result in error. *
    * For access to the library and/or executable code, the user is advised *
    * to contact the nearest TI sales office or distributor.

    Regards,

    Igor

  • 0 in reply to Igor Gorbachev
    Intellectual 310 points

    Dear Sir,

    Thanks for your information .

    Recently I bought following  kit  http://www.ti.com/tool/drv8312-69m-kit

    Can I use this motor driver and controller  to evaluate IPD algorithm. ( This kit comes along with SPMSM , I can change the motor to IPMSM). Let me frame my questions as below.

    1.  Enhanced Sensorless Field Orientation Control  of PMSM , designed based  2803x controller, can it work with F28069 controller.

    2.As IPD algorithm needs to inject HF signal , does this require any hardware changes .

    Thanks

    RK

  • 0 in reply to Igor Gorbachev
    TI__Guru** 118000 points

    For HFI library

    1. first release is in controlSUITE code format with an example using TMDSHVMTRPFCKIT and a highly salient IPM motor that is NOT available for purchase.  You can use this with your own high voltage salient motor if you like, trying to tune the algorithm for good response.

    2. we are working on a second release for MotorWare to be used primarily with InstaSPIN-FOC solutions.  We will demonstrate these examples on more widely available motors that we have confirmed to work well:

    DRV8301-69M-KIT + LVSERVOMTR

    TMDSHVMTRINSPIN + HVSERVOMTR (this is a new Teknic motor, very similar to LVSERVOMTR that we are evaluating now)

    We are also looking at then updating the controlSUITE version to work with the HVSERVOMTR so more people can start with a working example.

    It should be noted that this is not "instant", there is some manual tuning and work that must be done with your motor, and is best done with a current probe and oscilloscope. One of the things we are working on is the documentation on how to do this tuning & testing of your tuning, as well as making sure the software is flexible enough for all the system considerations we can currently think of.

    We don't have a date for a release of the MotorWare version yet....we want to make sure it's very clean before we release.

  • 0 in reply to ChrisClearman
    Prodigy 65 points

    Hi Chris,

    I have purchased the LV multi axis kit and I am interested in detecting rotor and speed information in the low speed region. Is there any possibilities in getting a high frequency injection up and running? ie is there any libraries available that can be used on the LV kit?

  • 0 in reply to Marcellus Sauls
    TI__Guru** 118000 points

    Marcellus,

    The High Frequency Injection (HFI)  technique example runs on our controlSUITE based HVMTRKIT with Enhanced SMO using F28035 controlCARD

    C:\ti\controlSUITE\development_kits\HVMotorCtrl+PfcKit_v2.1\HVPM_Enhanced_Sensorless_2803x

    1. you have to request the HFI IPD library

    2. yes, you could port the entire example to the 2MTRPFCKIT...that is a very old kit though that is not recommended for new designs. You should have purchased one of the DRV83x based kits IMO.

    3. this technique requires a highly salient motor....do you know if your motor is salient?

    4. we will release a similar HFI technique as well as a technique that does NOT require saliency (works for many more motors) combined with our InstaSPIN-FOC and -MOTION solutions later this year.

     

     

  • 0 in reply to ChrisClearman
    Prodigy 65 points

    Hi Chris

    The motor I have is the one that is included with the LV multiaxis kit. As far as I can tell from the documentation included in the kit it is a BLDC from Aneheim Automation BLY172S-24V-4000 however when I spin the motor I observe a sinusoidal back emf waveform. So I am not sure if it salient or not.

    Also is there any way to extract the data from dlog4ch to a text file or any other type of file for subsequent processing?

    Thank you so much for your help.

  • 0 in reply to Marcellus Sauls
    TI__Guru** 118000 points

    Marcellus,

    None of the motors we sell or include in the kits are salient.  The LVSERVOMTR seems to work ok with the HFI technique, but it's HV sister (which we don't sell) does not.  Salient motor are highly customized, used in high volume compressors, traction, and some appliance applications.

    I think you should skip the HFI investigation.  We have another technique that will work with standard surface mount syncronous motors that we will release in the future with InstaSPIN-FOC& -MOTION.

     

  • 0 in reply to ChrisClearman
    Prodigy 65 points

    Hi Chris,

    Thank you for your quick response.

    That is unfortunate I have actually been doing some modelling in simulink/matlab and I would have liked to investigate the proposed algorithm on this particular kit. However if I did get my hands on a highly salient motor ie where there is a substantial difference between Ld and Lq could I then use LV multi axis kit to implement using the  HFI technique.I know it is not easy to estimate but if yes how long would the actual implementation take ?

     

  • 0 in reply to Marcellus Sauls
    TI__Guru** 118000 points

    Marcellus Sauls said:
    However if I did get my hands on a highly salient motor ie where there is a substantial difference between Ld and Lq could I then use LV multi axis kit to implement using the  HFI technique

    Technically you could...although I would probably tell you it may be easier to just get a HVMTR and use the TMDSHVMTRPFCKIT with the SW as is....

    The HFI algorithm is not "insta", it requires some tuning for a given motor.

     

    If you are just doing research for simulation you may want to seach for University of Wisconsion / WEMPEC papers, they are a leader in this field.

     

  • 0 in reply to ChrisClearman
    Prodigy 65 points

    Hi Chris,

    Thank you for the feedback. Do you perhaps know what the maximum power output for the LV multi axis kit. I could not find in the documentation. Also as far as retrieving data from the DLOG4CH which is used for the grapher and exporting this data to a file is it all possible ?

  • 0 in reply to Marcellus Sauls
    TI__Guru** 118000 points

    The DRV8402 driver on TMDS2MTRPFCKIT can do 10A continuous, if you have a capable power supply and load.

    I believe you can do this in CCS, but then you aren't getting every sample, you are at the mercy of the the RTDX and JTAG speed.  If you have a device with enough RAM it may be better to buffer up several thousand datapoints, halt, and then transwer them all over to a text file.  Sorry, I'm not on expert on this, you should probably ask at the Code Composer Studio forum.

     

  • 0 in reply to ChrisClearman
    Prodigy 65 points

    Hi Chris

    On the topic of the LV multiaxis kit. I have designed PI controllers in discrete form in Matlab/Simulink and now I want to implement them on the microcontroller. Is there an easy method for implementation of these discretized PI coefficients. Basically I am hoping to obtain similar performance as compared to the simulation.  

    Thank you so much for all your advice.

  • 0 in reply to ChrisClearman
    Intellectual 310 points

    Hi Chris,

    I am looking for some clarifications on QEP module .

    TI-DMC library offers library functions to support QEP . But I have a PMSM motor with resolver feedback . Could you please explain , is there a ready made library function available to read resolver feedback .

    Earlier I requeseted for HFI/IPD library , you asked to contact melocal  distributor for the same.

    I am expecting my local distributor (<VineshPulse@element14.com>) for the TI products will contact you soon to request for HFI/IPD library . Please help.

     

    Thanks

    RK

  • 0 in reply to ravikumar setty
    Intellectual 310 points

    Chris,

    Please send me mail address.

    RK

  • 0 in reply to ravikumar setty
    TI__Guru** 118000 points

    Ravi,

    If you have raw resolver signals (sin cos) you can use TMDSRSLVR to decode the signals and transmit them over SPI to your motor controller.  You resolver may already have a built-in decoder that sends high speed SPI or UART data though.  You don't use the QEP in either case.

     

  • 0 in reply to Marcellus Sauls
    TI__Guru** 118000 points

    Marcellus,

    Sorry, I can't anwer your question.  Perhaps better to ask Mathworks.

    c2000_expert@mathworks.com

     

  • 0 in reply to ChrisClearman
    Intellectual 310 points

    Hi Chris,

     I am trying to Import the HVPM_Enhanced_Sensorless project from C:\ti\controlSUITE\development_kits\HVMotorCtrl+PfcKit_v2.1.

    I believe this is designed for F2803x series microcontrollers . But I do have DRV8312 based F28069 microcontroller board (The DRV8312-69M-KIT).

    Can I use the same source code on F28069 controller ? If , yes what changes are needed to migrate this project to F28069 board. I dont find such project under F28069 controllers ? Can you please help.

    Thanks

    Ravi

  • 0 in reply to ravikumar setty
    TI__Guru** 118000 points

    The enhanced sensorless is only shown on F28035 + HVKIT.

    However, it's very similar to the standard PM_Sensorless. So my suggestion would be to look at the code differences between the Enhanced and 

    C:\ti\controlSUITE\development_kits\DRV8312-C2-KIT_v128\PM_Sensorless

    And note that THIS project already supports F2806x as well as the 3x, so all of the peripheral and clocking changes are captured.

    I will however suggest that if you are looking at sensorless with the F2806x you evaluate InstaSPIN-FOC and InstaSPIN-MOTION solutions @ www.ti.com/instaspin

    they are far superior to the SMO.