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MSP-GANG operating condition

Shinya Muramatsu
Expert 1010 points
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: MSP-GANG

Hello,I'm FAE of distributor in Japan.

My customer use MSP-GANG for programming in their Factory.

And sometimes They had programming trouble. rate 1/40000.

They want to decrease programming error rate.

They asked us about MSP-GANG operating condition.

1) From how much degree to how much degree does MSP-GANG guarantee operating condition temparature range?

2) Do you know normal error rate?

3) How long time does MSP-GANG continure to program?

  • 0
    TI__Guru 68116 points
    Hi Muramatsu-san,

    Thank you for your post. I will ask about the temperature - what temperature is the MSP-GANG being used with? I believe that it should work for the same temperatures that the MSP device is allowed to be programmed at from MSP datasheet.

    Can you please help to provide some more information:

    1. Can you please describe the error state in more detail - is it that your customer programs the device via MSP-GANG, and the MSP-GANG reports a verification error? If there is an error message on the MSP-GANG or MSP-GANG GUI, could you please report what the error message is or provide a screen-shot? Or is the error something that the MSP-GANG does not report at production but is found later?
    2. Is the MSP-GANG GUI used, or does the customer use the DLL for custom automated programming?
    3. Could you send a screenshot showing the MSP-GANG GUI settings used so that we can see your programming configuration?
    4. Which version of the MSP-GANG software is used? (you can find this under About > About and simply take a screenshot)
    5. I have a list of questions in this other thread which is like a checklist for MSP-GANG issues - can you answer these same questions for your case? e2e.ti.com/.../1505714 If you need to send a schematic privately because this is an external forum, you can send me a private message by clicking on my name and then selecting to send me a message.

    Regards,
    Katie
  • 0 in reply to Katie Pier
    Expert 1010 points
    Hi,Katie-san
    Thanks a lot for your reply.
    We couldn't find datasheet of MSP-GANG,we only read user's guide.
    And it have no information about temparature.
    Please inform where is datasheet?

    They are writing only 1 device for connecting 1 board.
    My customer use their custom application from using DLL.
    They use SBW interface.
    We checked board circuit is similer with reference circuit.
    It is diffrent no 10uF capacitor at Vcc line only .

    Customer's error happen as follow.
    Connected_gang_mask
    Erased_gang_mask
    Programmed_gang_mask
    We checked waveform of

    Best reards
    Shinya Muramatsu
  • 0 in reply to Shinya Muramatsu
    TI__Guru 68116 points

    Hi Muramatsu-san,

    Because the MSP-GANG is a tool instead of a device, it only has a user's guide not a datasheet. What I was referring to was the datasheet for the particular MSP430 device that you are programming - that datasheet should specify an operating range of temperatures. Which MSP device is being programmed, and at what temperature?

    Shinya Muramatsu said:
    We checked board circuit is similer with reference circuit.
    It is diffrent no 10uF capacitor at Vcc line only .

    Which reference circuit were they comparing to? Also it can be important to have the recommended caps on the Vcc line to avoid noise/glitches on Vcc, which could potentially cause problems during programming or operation.

    Shinya Muramatsu said:
    Customer's error happen as follow.
    Connected_gang_mask
    Erased_gang_mask
    Programmed_gang_mask
    We checked waveform of

    Is this post maybe missing some pictures? I was not clear what the error was from this. (info on inserting images on e2e: )

    With the DLL, they should be getting some error # message if programming fails on some devices. What error # do they receive? Can you share their DLL project code or at least the entire sequence of commands/settings used (you can send me a private message to share this if needed).

    Regards,

    Katie

  • 0 in reply to Katie Pier
    TI__Guru 68116 points
    Please also note in the MSP-GANG user's guide www.ti.com/.../slau358 in section 2.1.6 Creating and Using Images, there is an important note:
    "NOTE: Do not overwrite images unnecessarily during production
    The image flash memory has a specified 10000 endurance cycles. Therefore, over the
    lifetime of the product, each image can be reliably reprogrammed 10000 times.
    Reprogramming images should be done once per production setup, rather than per
    programming run. Reprogramming the image per programming run will quickly exhaust flash
    endurance cycles and result in errant behavior."

    If their DLL project is written in such a way that it loads the image into the MSP-GANG for every single programming run, you could be wearing out the MSP-GANG internal flash memory. The code project should be written in such a way that repeated programming sessions can be run without loading the image into the MSP-GANG flash every single time and exhausting the MSP-GANG internal flash.

    -Katie
  • 0 in reply to Katie Pier
    Expert 1010 points
    Hello,Katie-san
    thank you for answering and sorry too late reply
    They programmed in range of device,but
    I couldn't get MSP-GANG's self‐heating result from thiers.
    We referenced slau278r figure2-3
    They didn't open detail information,but I think they check xx_gang_mask
    from calling DLL MSPGANG_GetProgressStatus.
    Then sorry,I want to infrom that their TDI/TDO waveform have slew,but interrupted.
    Regards,
    Shinya Muramatsu.
  • 0 in reply to Katie Pier
    Expert 1010 points
    Hello,Katie-san
    Thanks a lot for this information.
  • 0 in reply to Shinya Muramatsu
    TI__Guru 68116 points
    Hi Muramatsu-san,

    The MSPGANG_GetProgressStatus command returns a large structure of information - it sounds like the customer is looking at the xx_gang_mask fields to see if some devices did not pass the erase/program/verify steps.

    Another field that is available in the same returned structure from GetProgressStatus, is the "error_no" field - this should contain an error number that can be used to help identify what went wrong with the programming. Can they report what is the value of this field on a failure? Please see www.ti.com/.../slau358 section 4.2.42 MSPGANG_GetProgressStatus for more information.

    An alternate thing that you can do is to use MSPGANG_GetAPIStatus(14) - pass it the value 14 "GET_LAST_ERROR_NO" as a parameter- using this command should also return the error number.

    Once you have the error number, we can look it up in the MSP-GANG user's guide. You can also use MSPGANG_GetErrorString and pass it the error number, and it will return the error string that corresponds to that error number.

    "Then sorry,I want to infrom that their TDI/TDO waveform have slew,but interrupted."
    I was not sure what you meant by this. Are they seeing something that does not look correct in their waveform?

    Regards,
    Katie
  • 0 in reply to Katie Pier
    Expert 1010 points
    Hello,Katie-san
    Thanks a lot for your information.

    They ask me a new question.
    What does "ERROR # 015 - VtIO is too low" mean?
    It is a diffrent kind of question from thier evaluation envirment.
    I checked user's guide and I didn't understand about VtIO.

    And I explained about reliably reprogrammed 10000 times,they understood this information.
    They'll try to change their application.

    Then they can't change thier application for debugging now,because Different division made it.
    Just a moment for getting this information.

    > Are they seeing something that does not look correct in their waveform?
    Yes,thier waveform have much slew from my reference waveform,and they compare thier envirment and reference deeply now.

    Best regard
    Shinya Muramatsu.
  • 0 in reply to Shinya Muramatsu
    TI__Guru 68116 points
    Hi Muramatsu-san,

    Thanks so much for the additional information about the error number. I'm working to get more information about that error message from the MSP-GANG designers - I think that the VtIO is a voltage involved with the signals on the pins for programming (but I will get a more definite answer). This leads to some follow-up questions:

    1. How are their target boards being powered during programming - is it from something external like an on-board battery, or from the MSP-GANG?
    2. You may want to consider making sure that your code using the DLL, sets the Vcc level to the appropriate level required by your application.
    3. What pin of the JTAG header (pin2 or pin4) is connected to the target device Vcc? Note that both should not be connected at the same time.
    4. If powered from the MSP-GANG, how much current does each target board consume? Please note that the MSP-GANG can only supply 30mA or 50mA for each target device, and you need to set this using the DLL. If enough current is required amongst all of the up to 8 devices being programmed, you will need to use the MSP-GANG external power supply instead of just powering the tool off of the USB. So knowing how the MSP-GANG is powered is important as well. Please see www.ti.com/.../slau358 section 1.3 for more details.

    You mentioned seeing some slew rate issue - they should please also consider if their signal path may be too long or have too much capacitance particularly on the RST line. Please see section 1.3 "NOTE: Maximum Signal Path Length: 50 cm The maximum length of a signal path between the 14-pin JTAG or SBW connector on the Gang Splitter and the target device is 50 cm." They may need to use shorter cables between the MSP-GANG and the device, or reduce the capacitor on RST.

    Regards,
    Katie
  • 0 in reply to Katie Pier
    TI__Guru 68116 points
    Hi Muramatsu-san,

    I noticed in the release notes of version 1.1.10.0 we mention fixing a bug about the Vcc/Vtio monitoring in the MSP-GANG. Can you confirm which MSP-GANG firmware version the customer uses? I know they are using the DLL, but if they open the GUI and go to About > About this should tell what MSP-GANG firmware version is in the part. The latest version is 1.1.12.0 and I'd recommend testing with the latest version. The update doesn't always affect the DLL, but it will affect what firmware is inside the MSP-GANG and running based on the DLL commands, so it does affect your programming even when using the DLL.

    Regards,
    Katie
  • 0 in reply to Katie Pier
    Expert 1010 points
    Hi Katie-san,
    Thanks a lot for your kindly support.
    I had meeting with cutomers today.
    I'll send private messege from now.

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