BQ34Z100-G1: Help for optimisation Cycle

HATEM BELGACEM

Part Number: BQ34Z100-G1
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: GPCCHEM, BQSTUDIO, GPCRA0

Hi,

I followed the optimization cycle described here :

I have configured the dataflash using the datasheet and the slua664 file. I chose the appropriate chemistry ID= 0x800: I have a lead acid battery 38Ah with valve regulated.

I have proceeded a charge cycle in first, I waited for OCVTAKEN flag to be set but it never changed. ( I waited for 24h...)

Questions:

1 Is my dataflash configuration ok?

Config_1.gg.zip

2 Is it normal the Ra-Table has changed when I activated the Impedance track?

3 When I started the discharge cycle, the communication with the IC is lost, and the state of charge jump to 0%

Thanks in advance for your answer

over 6 years ago

0 Onyx Ahiakwo over 6 years ago

TI__Guru* 76230 points

Hi Hatem

2. Ra updates during discharge. qmax update should occur before ra update starts.

Follow this procedure and log your data

-enable It, issue a reset command
-discharge to empty
-rest 5 hours
-charge to full
-rest 2 hours
-discharge to empty,
-rest 5 hours

if learning isn't successful send over your gg and log files .

thanks
Onyx

0 HATEM BELGACEM over 6 years ago in reply to Onyx Ahiakwo

Prodigy 60 points

Hi Onyx,

the link I indicated in my previous post described to begin the cycle by charging to full. Is the charge and discharge order important?

In my .gg file did you see any inconsistencies?

thanks

0 Onyx Ahiakwo over 6 years ago in reply to HATEM BELGACEM

TI__Guru* 76230 points

hi Hatem
Yes the charge and dishcarge order is important. it is important you have qmax update first before Ra updates. How did you determine your chem id? Did you perform the tests outline in gpcchem? Did you have FC flag set during the the charge process? A log file would be needed to see why learning failed if it fails.
thanks
Onyx

0 HATEM BELGACEM over 6 years ago in reply to Onyx Ahiakwo

Prodigy 60 points

Hi Onyx,

You tell me Qmax updates, which one is it? "Qmax cell 0" in Dataflash GAS GAUGING or "Qmax passed Q" in Register section?

The Chem ID has been determined by TI support technician from France.

We have a 12V lead acid battery, 38 Ah with valves regulated.

Yes FC flag sets during charge process.

I started a new optimization cycle, beginning with a discharge . After relax time I have OCVTAKEN flag set, but the Update Status remains at 04 (doesn't increment to 05).

Thanks

0 Onyx Ahiakwo over 6 years ago in reply to HATEM BELGACEM

TI__Guru* 76230 points

-qmax cell 0 in DF.
-Pls follow the steps i outlined in my earlier post. Don't get caught up with the details of the different registers changing. Just make sure to send IT enable, then reset (0x41) before discharging.

thanks
Onyx

0 HATEM BELGACEM over 6 years ago in reply to Onyx Ahiakwo

Prodigy 60 points

I have followed the steps in the order you described them.

I have sent an It enable by pressing the push button in BqStudio interface, I send the reset command using the same process.

I began by discharging the battery.

I relax it 2 days ( because we don't work saturday and Sunday).

I charge the battery to full.

I relax 2 hours.

I have started the second discharge cycle.

When the discharge cycle will be finished i will send you a log file, after relax time.

0 Onyx Ahiakwo over 6 years ago in reply to HATEM BELGACEM

TI__Guru* 76230 points

HI Hartem

Great. If learning fails, we have our tool gpcRa which will calculate your qmax and resistance tables Pls look that up to see how to use it to avoid carrying out another learning.

thanks

Onyx

0 HATEM BELGACEM over 6 years ago in reply to Onyx Ahiakwo

Prodigy 60 points

Hi Onyx

I send you my log file and the configuration file. when i create the log file, an error file has been generated.

LogAndConfigFiles.zip

Thanks

0 Onyx Ahiakwo over 6 years ago in reply to HATEM BELGACEM

TI__Guru* 76230 points

Hi Hatem,
What is this log file? Did learning fail? Have you looked into using our gpcRa0 tool? www.ti.com/.../GPCRA0
thanks
Onyx

0 HATEM BELGACEM over 6 years ago in reply to Onyx Ahiakwo

Prodigy 60 points

Hi Onyx,

I have looked your gpcRa0, and I have followed the instuction manual for creating the .zip file containing the desired files.

I have submited this zip file, but in the response mail an error occured.

Can you tell me what is this error because it has not been identified by your Tools.

Can you please analyse my .zip file?

4276.log.zip

0 Pial over 6 years ago in reply to HATEM BELGACEM

TI__Expert 7280 points

I am no expert, but allow me a few remarks before my colleagues takes over me:

chemid is supposed to be 0800, not sure if it is in hexadecimal originally, which would translate to 2048
this is only a discharge log, and I am not sure but I think the tool also needs a charge
CSV is not formatted correctly

PS: attached to this message, the original chemid result and the log (C/20 discharge) which lead to it20160616 - log discharge.zip

20160617 - GPC_report.txt

Chemistry ID selection tool, rev=2.13		
		
Configuration used in present fit:		
ProcessingType = 2		
NumCellSeries = 6		
VoltageColumn = 1		
CurrentColumn = 2		
TemperatureColumn = 3		
ElapsedTimeColumn = 0		
		
Best chemical ID : 800	Best chemical ID max. deviation, % : 3.12	
		
		
		
Summary of all IDs with max. DOD deviation below 3%		
		
Chem ID	max DOD error, %	Max R deviation, ratio
0	0	0
		
Warning: Deviation is above recommended level. New chem ID needs to be released for this cell. Please contact your TI representative to send the cell to Dallas for characterization		
       0	0		
Warning: difference between initial and final DOD is less than 90%	 dDOD_%=  84.8263937099065		
Warning: Max R deviation ratio can not be checked because discharge hr-rate is above 12.  Hr rate = 18.1666342860201	0

0 Onyx Ahiakwo over 6 years ago in reply to Pial

TI__Guru* 76230 points

Hi Pial, Hatem
The chem id should not be converted. What the tool returned is already in hex so it should be chem id 0x800 you program on the gauge.
Pial, you are right, the toll needs a charge.

You can see from your gpcchem report that your difference between initial and final DOD is less than 90% dDOD_%= 84.8263937099065 . You need to charge the cells to the max spec in the data sheet and discharge to the min voltage spec in data sheet.

thanks
Onyx

0 Gael Porte over 6 years ago in reply to HATEM BELGACEM

Prodigy 60 points

Hello Onyx,

I am working with HATEM BELGACEM and we did a new complet cycle of charge and discharge. We created the zip file as explained here : but your online tool always generates an error :

Warning: Automatic firmware properties detection failed. Rb_select defaults to 2. Please make sure that chem ID loaded in the GG file is the same as ID specified in the config.txt
Warning: Automatic firmware properties detection failed. basescale defaults to 1. Please make sure that chem ID loaded in the GG file is the same as ID specified in the config.txt

I have checked in bq Studio and the Chem ID is fine (0x0800)

Can you please, take a look to the following zip archive ?

actia_charge_decharge_no_excel.zip

Thanks in advance for your time.

Gaël

0 Bryan Kahler over 6 years ago in reply to Gael Porte

TI__Mastermind 25955 points

Hi Gaël,

I have been able to replicate the error with the the GPCCHEM tool internally. I apologize for the inconvenience - we are working to resolve the issue.

I will provide an update to the situation on Monday. Thank you for your patience.

Sincerely,
Bryan Kahler

0 Gael Porte over 6 years ago in reply to Bryan Kahler

Prodigy 60 points

Hello Bryan,

Thanks for your answer, we can't wait to have some good news next week :-)

Best regards,

Gaël

0 Bryan Kahler over 6 years ago in reply to Gael Porte

TI__Mastermind 25955 points

Hi Gaël,

I tried to massage the data on this end to get it through the tool, but was unsuccessful.

Unfortunately, after the initial charge and discharge, there is no rest period. For the tool to operate correctly, please ensure there is at least a 2 hour rest period after charging and a 5 hour rest period after discharging.

The image above is a cleaned up representation of your data (removed the charge period without relaxation in an attempt to get the data through the tool), but it should look more like the image below:

Please note the 5 hour rest period after charge and 2 hour rest period after discharge, as shown above.

If the above discussion helped resolve your issue, please click on the "This resolved my Issue" button below to help others with a similar question find this answer.

Sincerely,
Bryan Kahler

0 Gael Porte over 6 years ago in reply to Bryan Kahler

Prodigy 60 points

Hello Bryan,

I am confused, we did the process correctly. Please check the following chart based on the logs we sent you.

As you can see, we charged the battery until 8:46am. At this point, the voltage (13.422 V) was the charger voltage and not the battery voltage. So when we disconnected the charger, the battery voltage went back to the actual battery voltage (12.924 V).
Plus, you can see that we waited for 2:20:41 (from 08:45:26 to 11:07:07), so the relax period was respected.

After the discharge, you can see that the relax period was long enough. We actually let it relax during the weekend, I removed the end part of the data to improve the display.

I am not sure how we can improve our learning process since all the requirements are fulfilled.

Can you please provide us another solution ?

Thanks in advance for your time and patience.

Best regards,

Gaël

0 Onyx Ahiakwo over 6 years ago in reply to Gael Porte

TI__Guru* 76230 points

Hi Gael,

Can you pls clarify what the issue is at the moment. I am reading through the post and it seems you are having learning cycle issues. But then again you seem to be trying to identify a chem id.

Your earlier posts indicate that you ran the files through the tool and you got chem id 800 with a deviatin of max DOD error greater than 3%.

That means that your likelihood of learning being successful is very small because you aren't using a good enough match for the chem id. The criteria is teh Dod error should be less than 3%.

- You can either rerun your chem id identification (gpcchem) ensuring that you are discharging to the minimum voltage specified in the cell manufacturer data sheeet and charging to the max charge voltage as well, to see if you will get a chem id with dod error less than 3%, after which you run a learning cycle.

or
- program chem id 800 on your device
-extract a gg file which will have the default settings of the chem id and then use that gg file file and the log file you sent earlier to submit to gpcRa0 to calculate the qmax and Ra table values. The returned file the tool sends you will be your learned file which you will program on your device and run a few (2) cycles to verify accuracy.

thanks
Onyx

0 Gael Porte over 6 years ago in reply to Onyx Ahiakwo

Prodigy 60 points

Hello Onyx,

To be clear, we are desperately trying to do the learning cycle for weeks. We tried the normal way with bqStudio but the Ra Table and Qmax Cell 0 never change.

So you suggested another solution here : , which was the Gauging Parameter Calculator tool (http://www.ti.com/tool/gpcRa0)

And the first time we had some issues with the charging and discharging logs so we repeated a complete Charge and Discharge cycle as shown in my last message. And still, we have no correct results from this tool.

Therefore, in your last message you told us that the chem ID (0x800) was wrong. First of all, I have check with bqStudio and the chem ID is set to 0x800.

But I am highly surprised if you tell me that the chem ID can't be 0x800 because I think Pial told us, in June 2016, that the chem ID was 0x800 and we use the same kind of battery. We used a new battery to be sure that everything is fine on this part.

Here is the chem ID selection made by TI :

If I understand you correctly, the learning cycle will never work because the chem ID you suggested doesn't actually match our real battery ? What other solution is left for us ..? :-(

Gaël

0 Bryan Kahler over 6 years ago in reply to Gael Porte

TI__Mastermind 25955 points

Hi Gaël,

Unfortunately, the data log is not sufficient to generate a chemID match for the battery. This is due to a few issues in the learning cycle that we can fix.

The voltage requires more time to rest after the charger has been disconnected before beginning your discharge cycle.

With respect to the discharge cycle, the battery is being discharged at too high of a rate. Your data shows the battery discharging in 3.5 hours. Please use a discharge rate between C/5 and C/10. I prefer to shoot the middle and discharge at a C/7 rate.

Also, the discharge is not a constant current discharge. Please use an electronic load to enforce a constant C/7 rate.

In summary, modifications to make to your current test procedure:

Increase the rest time after charging until you see the voltage relax
Ensure the discharge is constant current
Set the rate of discharge to be C/7

Please submit the new log to the GPCCHEM tool.

If there are any issues, please let me know and I'll test your new data on this end as well.

Sincerely,

Bryan Kahler

0 Gael Porte over 6 years ago in reply to Bryan Kahler

Prodigy 60 points

Hello Bryan,

Thanks for your answer. We also understood that the chemID used was not really matching our battery.

We retried a new charging / discharging cycle and following your advice in a controlled room temperature. So far it didn't go very well since the communication between the PC and the EVM400 stops and the log file is full of erros.

We will give you more news when we'll succeed the charging and discharging cycle.

Best regards,

Gaël

0 Bryan Kahler over 6 years ago in reply to Gael Porte

TI__Mastermind 25955 points

Hi Gaël,

Thanks for the update. I hope this test turns out well.

Please let me know if there are any issues I can help with on this end.

Sincerely,
Bryan Kahler

0 Gael Porte over 6 years ago in reply to Bryan Kahler

Prodigy 60 points

Hello Bryan,

Thanks for your wishes. We got direct help from Pial so now we are quite optimistic. I'll keep you updated.

Have a nice week.

Gaël

0 Bryan Kahler over 6 years ago in reply to Gael Porte

TI__Mastermind 25955 points

Hi Gaël

Excellent! I look forward to seeing the results.

Sincerely,
Bryan Kahler

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BQ34Z100-G1: Help for optimisation Cycle