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BQ34Z100-G1: Help needed in 2S lead acid cells configuration

Lukasz Przenioslo
Expert 2630 points
Part Number: BQ34Z100-G1
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: BQSTUDIO, GPCCHEM, BQ34Z100

Hello there,

At this point I am clueless on why is my BQ34Z100-G1 config still not working. The SoC shows 0% all the time, even thought the batteries are fully charged. I will describe my application here with all the steps I took in order to configure the device. I would appreciate all help regarding this topic.

Here is the relevant chunk of my schematics. I have removed all parts that could make it more difficult to read it:

The parameters for a single cell (there are 2 connected in series in the design) in my application are the following:

  1. Max charge voltage: 2.2 V
  2. Min charge voltage: 1.65 V
  3. Capacity: 5000 mAh
  4. Max energy: 5000 mAh * 2.2 V * 2 cells = 22000 mWh
  5. Exact cell model: Cyclon X from Enersys: www.batterystore.com/.../

Those are the steps I took in order to configure the device (basing on SLUSBZ5B –JANUARY 2015–REVISED JULY 2016):

  1. I entered the Design Capacity: 5000
  2. I entered the design energy: 22000
  3. I entered the Cell charge Voltage Tx-Ty: 4000, 4200, 4400
  4. I configured the LED configuration for 5 leds.
  5. I configured Alert to turn the LED on when battery is discharged.
  6. I entered series cells number. Here I tried 1 and 2, since I did not know how to threat this config. At the moment I have 1 cell.
  7. I set the pack configuration for single cell, since I have no external divider.
  8. I left load select and load mode alone.
  9. I entered cell terminate voltage: 4400
  10. I left Quit current alone.
  11. I entered Wmax Cell 0: 5000
  12. I have choosen the Chemical ID for the battery from the available ones in the battery studio. I have choosen the one for Enersys Cyclon D. Its the same battery as mines, but its 2500 mAh instead of 5000 mAh. Is this approach correct?
  13. I calibrated the voltage and temperature.
  14. At this moment I wanted to run an optimization cycle but my SoC is invalid. Doesnt matter if I charge or discharge the battery, its 0 %.
  15. I left the battery chemistry configuration part alone, as there were no special configs for my type of battery described.

And here I am, not knowing whats going on, needing the gauge to work for more than 2 weeks now already...

I would really appreciate your help here, the case is really urgent for me.

  • 0
    TI__Mastermind 25955 points
    Hi Lukasz,

    Thank you for your well worded and clear post.

    Most gauge settings for the bq34z100-g1 are oriented around single cell values.

    In the schematic above, a 2s1p configuration is shown, however, the max energy calculation performed in step 4 above is for a 2s2p pack with 5000 mAh cells. If your pack is 2s1p, the max energy should be 11000 mWh.

    The cell charge voltages look to be for lithium cells instead of lead acid. Please note that the default settings are for lithium batteries. As a rule of thumb, If you open up bqStudio and click on 'import defaults' values that are near 4200 mV (indicating max voltage) should be modified to the max voltage of your lead acid cells (shown above as 2.2 V). Please set values correspondingly (Li-Ion cell values -> Lead Acid cell values) Please fix these values, such as the cell terminate voltage.

    If you only have 1 cell connected, please set the series value to 1.

    Interestingly, since you have such a low voltage (below 5 V), the external voltage divider does not need to be utilized for your device. If you'd prefer to use the internal voltage divider, please set the jumpers on the EVM to <5 V mode and set VOLTSEL = 0. Also, please update the VOLTAGE DIVIDER parameter in dataflash to be 5000.

    With respect to chosing the chemID for your battery, using the chemID given by the manufacturer (if given by the manufacturer) is recommended. If the manufacturer has not given a chemID with the cell, please use the GPCCHEM tool to determine a matching chemID. The tool and instruction pdf are found at: http://www.ti.com/tool/gpcchem

    Please make these modifications to fix your SOC.

    If the issues persist, please include a gg.csv file, log, and description of the issue.

    Sincerely,
    Bryan Kahler
  • 0 in reply to Bryan Kahler
    Expert 2630 points


    Thank you for answer,

    In the schematic above, a 2s1p configuration is shown, however, the max energy calculation performed in step 4 above is for a 2s2p pack with 5000 mAh cells. If your pack is 2s1p, the max energy should be 11000 mWh.


    You are right, this is my mistake.

    The cell charge voltages look to be for lithium cells instead of lead acid. Please note that the default settings are for lithium batteries. As a rule of thumb, If you open up bqStudio and click on 'import defaults' values that are near 4200 mV (indicating max voltage) should be modified to the max voltage of your lead acid cells (shown above as 2.2 V). Please set values correspondingly (Li-Ion cell values -> Lead Acid cell values) Please fix these values, such as the cell terminate voltage.

    The thing is I still do not understand either I should thread this design as a single lead acid cell of 4.4 V, or a 2 series 2.2 V cells.

    Which registers are exactly responsible for those setting? So far I have (changed after your post):

    • Cell Charge Voltage T1-T2: set to 2200
    • Cell Charge Voltage T2-T3: set to 2200
    • Cell Charge Voltage T3-T4: set to 2200
    • Cell BH Set Volt Threshold: set to 2200
    • Cell BH Clear Volt Threshold: set to 2100
    • Number of series cell: set to 2
    • Voltage Divider: set to 5000 (was this way all the time)
    • VOLSEL: set to 0 (was this way all the time)

    As for the GPCCHEM: I still dont understand either I need to use it or not. I dod not receive any chemID from manufacturer. I simply found the battery that is similar to mine under Chemistry tab in BqStudio and have choosen it. The only difference between my battery and the one choosen from Chemistry programming tab is that mine is 5000 mAh and that one is 2500 mAh, but I believe this is compencsated by other setting? Am I wrong here?

    My battery is: Enersyss Cyclon E 5000 mAh

    The battery from Chemistry programming tab is: Enrsyss Cyclon D 2500 mAh

    Is this a correct approach?

    After correcting the setting the gauge still shows 0 % SoC and the batteries are near fully charged. I would appreciate your further assistance. I am attaching the settings generated from bqstudio.

    settings.gg.zip

  • 0 in reply to Lukasz Przenioslo
    TI__Expert 4640 points

    Hi Lukasz,

    Question: In your response: "...The thing is I still do not understand either I should thread this design as a single lead acid cell of 4.4 V, or a 2 series 2.2 V cells...."

    Answer: You should always input the number of series cells based on the actual number of series you are using.

    With regards to this question:

    Question: "...Which registers are exactly responsible for those setting? So far I have (changed after your post):..."

    Answer: Yes these settings are ok.

    With regards to this comment:

    Question: "...As for the GPCCHEM: I still dont understand either I need to use it or not. I dod not receive any chemID from manufacturer. I simply found the battery that is similar to mine under Chemistry tab in BqStudio and have choosen it. The only difference between my battery and the one choosen from Chemistry programming tab is that mine is 5000 mAh and that one is 2500 mAh, but I believe this is compencsated by other setting? Am I wrong here?..."

    Answer: You should use the GPCCHEM tool to find the closest match instead of choosing based on the selection. Please follow this process before choosing a cell.

    In addition in the most recent gg file i see the pack configuration set up as 49D9. Can you please use the default values to reset everything back to factory settings. The default srec file can be found on the bq34z100 product folder under tools/software tab.

    Thanks

    Miguel

  • 0 in reply to Miguel Angel Rios
    Expert 2630 points
    Thanks for answer Miguel,
    The problem is now that I cannot find the default srec file under the directory you have linked. Maybe it was removed?
  • 0 in reply to Lukasz Przenioslo
    TI__Expert 4640 points

    Can you please check in the product folder of the non G1 device 

  • 0 in reply to Lukasz Przenioslo
    TI__Expert 4640 points
    In that link there is. Look at the second link it clearly says "bq34z100-G1 Device Firmware "
  • 0 in reply to Miguel Angel Rios
    Expert 2630 points
    You are right, sorry. I did not expect an exe file.
  • 0 in reply to Lukasz Przenioslo
    TI__Expert 4640 points
    Please try loading those defaults and then using the GPCCHEM tool to find the most accurate CHEMID then you can add the changes for your cells above (charging currents etc.). then try the bqStudio again. If this creates the same issue then come back to us
  • 0 in reply to Miguel Angel Rios
    Expert 2630 points
    Hello Miguel,
    I have to admit that we are struggling with this task (getting the CHEMID). As loong as I understand the document "SLVA725–September 2015" correctly, we need to charge the battery with contact voltage and current and discharge it after that. The problem is that we only have a bench AC adapter power supply, thus, we cannot discharge using it. So you think it would be possible to send those enersys cells to you at TI and have it tested for CHEMID?
  • 0 in reply to Lukasz Przenioslo
    TI__Genius 14985 points
    Hi Lukasz,
    In order to test the gauge performance you will need some method of discharging eventually.
    You can use power resistors or anything similar to discharge but an electronic load is ideal. Just be sure to cut off your discharge before you go too low. You mentioned that a similar model was listed in the chemID table and only the capacity was off by a factor of 2. It's probably because we the number of parallel cells is different and therefore you should be fine using that chemID.
  • 0 in reply to dMax
    Expert 2630 points

    Hello dMax, thanks for answer,
    I tried to discharge with power resistor but as the "SLVA725–September 2015" mentioned there has to be a constant discharge current. That would be, like you said, only possible to acquire with electronic, variable load.

    Since you mentioned the Enersys Cyclon D chemID, I also think there is no need to reinvent the wheel, since our battery (Enersys Cyclon X) is the exact same model, with the only difference of capacity (5000 mAh opposed to 2500 mAh). And that can be compensated using the mAx capacity setting right?

    Assuming we can use the chemID mentioned above, we still have one problem we cannot overcome. We have reset all parameters to default like Miguel described. SoC went back to default state (charging and discharging could be noticed). Now we started to set all parameters the way I mentioned in the first post (respecting the changes Miguel suggested). As soon as we got to the design energy (which we set to 11000, but it feels like we could set anything here for the error), the SoC dropped to 0 %. Then we started charging and it went 100 % instantly. Then we started discharging and it went down to 0 % again. Since that point is stays at 0 % and does not move. What are we doing wrong here?

    I would appreciate firther support.

  • 0 in reply to dMax
    Prodigy 30 points
    Hello dMax,
    We (I and Lukasz) tried to detect the moment when SoC is dropped to 0%. We performed following steps:
    1. We loaded default settings from default srec file
    2. We entered the design capacity: 5000
    3. We entered the design capacity: 11000
    3. We entered the cell charge voltage for T1, T2 and T3 as 2200
    4. We entered the BH Set Volt Treshold: 2200
    5. We entered the BH Clear Volt Treshold: 2100
    6. We entered Numbers of series cell: 2
    7. VOLSEL and voltage divider have defaults values
    8. We selected chemistry id form chemistry menu as Cyclone_D (2500mAh)
    9. We set pin alert as discharging detecting and leds as 5 (43 register value)
    10. We performed full device reset and at other time started charge action and then SoC is dropped to 0%.

    At soc dropping moment voltage had 4086mV. We don't have any idea what was wrong. Thank you for your answer.

    Best regards Wojciech Jasiewicz.
  • 0 in reply to dMax
    Prodigy 30 points
    Hi dMax

    We (I and Lukasz) tried to configure bq as mentioned in posts above. In order to configure bq we performed following steps:
    1. We entered the design capacity: 5000
    2. We entered the design energy: 11000
    3. We entered the cell charge voltage for T1, T2 and T3 : 2200
    4. We entered the cell BH set volt threshold : 2200
    5. We entered the cell BH clear volt threshold : 2100
    6. We entered the number of series cell : 2
    7. VOLSEL is 0 and voltage divider is 5000
    8. We set alert pin as discharging detecting
    9. We set led configuration as Led 5 (43 register value)
    10. We loaded chemistry id as Cyclon_D (2500 mAh)
    11. At this step we performed either full device reset or charging action and for each one action device dropped soc to 0%.

    We don't have any ideas what was wrong. Voltage at soc dropping moment had 4080 mV. Thanks for your answer.

    Best regards Wojciech Jasiewicz.
  • 0 in reply to dMax
    Expert 2630 points

    Hello dMax,
    It is exactly as Wojciech described- after the config is done and we reset the device or start charching the SoC drops to 0% and doesnt move anymore no matter what we do. Any chance you could try this configuration and let us know whats going on? The topic is getting quite critical for us and we need to have the BQ finally running in the end of the week. We would really apreciate your help.

  • 0 in reply to Lukasz Przenioslo
    TI__Mastermind 25955 points
    Hi Lukasz,

    The default values for the device are set per-cell for lithium cells (on the order of 3000-4200 mV). Please ensure these values properly reflect per-cell your lead acid cell values (on the order of 1200-2000 mV). Please consult your cell datasheet for this information.

    Please set your Flash Update OK Cell Volt = 1000 mV.

    In addition, for default values with lead acid cells, please set:

    Configuration>Pb Temp Comp = 25%
    Configuration>Pb Reduction Rate = 10%

    Default Load Select = 3
    Cell Term V Delta = 100
    Min % Passed Chg for 1st Qmax = 50

    If the SOC issue is still seen after making these changes, please upload your gg.csv for analysis.

    Sincerely,
    Bryan Kahler
  • 0 in reply to Bryan Kahler
    Expert 2630 points

    Hello Bryan, thank you for answer.
    Today we are out of office. Tomorrow we will try your configuration 1st thing in the morning and let you know the results.

    Could you please explain which registers did you have in mind exactly when reffering here?:

    The default values for the device are set per-cell for lithium cells (on the order of 3000-4200 mV). Please ensure these values properly reflect per-cell your lead acid cell values (on the order of 1200-2000 mV). Please consult your cell datasheet for this information.

  • 0 in reply to Bryan Kahler
    Prodigy 30 points

    Hello Bryan,

    I repeated steps form my last post and I added settings according to your last post and then I forced full device reset. I don't know which voltage registers you have in mind (paragraph 1). After saved all setting bq has following behaviours:

    1. If battery is discharging soc is 0%

    2. If battery is charging soc is 100%

    These 2 conditionals had repeated by  5 times and now soc is 0% independly on action.

    I include settings as attachment

    bqSettings1.gg.csv.zip

    Best regards. Wojciech Jasiewicz.

  • 0 in reply to Wojciech Jasiewicz
    TI__Mastermind 25955 points
    Hi Wojciech,

    Please try exporting your gg.csv file again. It is not readable:

    "Configuration","Safety","OT Chg","ÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌOT Chg","1degC"
    "Configuration","Safety","OT Chg Time","ÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌOT Chg Time","Seconds"

    Sincerely,
    Bryan Kahler
  • 0 in reply to Bryan Kahler
    Expert 2630 points

    Hello Bryan,

    Here is the same file uploaded again, this time proper. Dont know why Bq studio generated corrupted file.

    0284.test.gg.zip

  • 0 in reply to Bryan Kahler
    Expert 2630 points

    Hello,

    Any news guys?

  • 0 in reply to Bryan Kahler
    Expert 2630 points
    Hello,
    We are waiting for an answer for over a month now. Please look up into our case.
  • 0 in reply to Lukasz Przenioslo
    TI__Mastermind 25955 points
    Hi Lukasz,

    Just a few notes from reviewing your gg file:


    Assuming the nominal voltage of your lead acid cell is 2 V and a capacity of 5000 mAh, please make the following changes:

    "Configuration","Data","Design Energy","10000","MilliWattHour"


    Modify the following parameters to work with your single cell voltages. These are extremely out of range for a lead acid application:

    "Configuration","Discharge","Cell BL Set Volt Threshold","2800","mVolt"
    "Configuration","Discharge","Cell BL Clear Volt Threshold","2900","mVolt"

    "Gas Gauging","IT Cfg","Cell Terminate Voltage","3000","mVolt"

    "Gas Gauging","State","Cell V at Chg Term","4200","mVolt"


    In addition, load your chemID using the CHEMISTRY tab followed by enabling IT prior to running a learning cycle.

    A chemID that matches your cells is ***required*** for IT Gauging (device functionality).

    For more information on how to determine the chemID for your cells, please see the gpcchem tool and documentation at: ti.com/tool/gpcchem


    Please review your LED configuration. Only 5 LEDs are seen in the attached schematic, but it is currently configured for 7 External LEDs.

    "Configuration","Registers","LED_Comm Configuration","63","flags"


    For more information on these parameters, please refer to the Datasheet.

    Sincerely,
    Bryan Kahler
  • 0 in reply to Bryan Kahler
    Expert 2630 points

    Hello Bryan,

    After your revision things seem to start working! Thank you very much.

    I only have 1 question left:

    1. When I select Chemistry -> My desired battery chemistry (Enersys Cyclone_D) and program it using "Program selected chemistry" button, it tels me that the database is out of date. So I downloaded the new one and installed it, but after that I still receive the out of date message.

    Do you kno what could be the case?

  • 0 in reply to Lukasz Przenioslo
    TI__Mastermind 25955 points
    Hi Lukasz,

    When you start up bqStudio, are you using the most recent bqz for the bq34z100-G1? It is called '0100_0_16-bq34z100G1.bqz'. If the bqz file does not match the firmware flashed to the device, a similar message to what you are experiencing may appear.

    If the issue persists, please send me a screenshot of the error message (please include the version of bqStudio, the version of the bqz you select when starting bq studio, and the version of the firmware on the gauge).

    However, if the gauge is programmed with the new chemistry (despite the warning message), it sounds like everything should be okay as you have have updated the database using the www.ti.com/.../GASGAUGECHEM-SW .

    To confirm that the chemID has been programmed successfully, please click the chemID button on the right hand 'Commands' pane. The response back should be the chemID you have programmed. Also check the Ra tables to see if the values differ from the values prior to the chemID programming attempt.

    Sincerely,
    Bryan Kahler
  • 0 in reply to Bryan Kahler
    Expert 2630 points

    Hello Bryan,

    To confirm that the chemID has been programmed successfully, please click the chemID button on the right hand 'Commands' pane. The response back should be the chemID you have programmed. Also check the Ra tables to see if the values differ from the values prior to the chemID programming attempt.


    This I can confirm.

    However, if the gauge is programmed with the new chemistry (despite the warning message), it sounds like everything should be okay as you have have updated the database using the www.ti.com/.../GASGAUGECHEM-SW .


    Yes, when I was updating it, the message was shown here exactly.

    When you start up bqStudio, are you using the most recent bqz for the bq34z100-G1? It is called '0100_0_16-bq34z100G1.bqz'. If the bqz file does not match the firmware flashed to the device, a similar message to what you are experiencing may appear.

    This I am not certain how to check. In the screenshot I have signed the BQ firmware and the chem ID's.

  • 0 in reply to Lukasz Przenioslo
    TI__Mastermind 25955 points
    Hi Lukasz,

    All looks good on this end - could you please send me a copy of the warning message?

    Sincerely,
    Bryan Kahler
  • 0 in reply to Bryan Kahler
    Expert 2630 points

    I think its because its the latest version (635, same as mine).

  • 0 in reply to Lukasz Przenioslo
    TI__Mastermind 25955 points
    Hi Lukasz,

    Thank you for the feedback - that error window can seem misleading! Since you have installed the updater manually, you should be good to go.

    Since this thread has become so long, if any new issues crop up, could you please create a new thread and link to this one? Thank you!

    Sincerely,
    Bryan Kahler
  • 0 in reply to Bryan Kahler
    Expert 2630 points
    Sure, thank you for help Bryan.