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TI Home » TI E2E Community » Support Forums » Power Management » LED Drivers/LCD Bias » LED Drivers/LCD Bias Forum » problems with LM3414
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problems with LM3414

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Jason Sokoloff
Posted by Jason Sokoloff
on Jul 20 2012 08:26 AM
Prodigy40 points

Hi

I am trying to design in a LM3414 to a lighting system I am building but having some problems.

I built 3 boards according to the schematic on the LM3414 spec sheet. Each board had multiple LM3414 circuits

1. All three boards seemed  initially to work; I checked each circuit individually with no signal connected to the EN pin and my LEDs lit

2. I am assuming this means that the EN pin floats high

3. When I input to the EN a 3.3v 10KHz  PWM signal the chip immediately literally caught on fire.

4. The PWM signal was from a micro, so low current but there was a little ringing on the square wave edges.

5. the third board stopped working before I had a chance to test it with a filtered PWM and the LEDs only glowed slightly.

6. I notices in this post http://nbitwonder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47  that someone had the same experiences with me and was hoping that there is someone else who may be familiar with this and can lend guidance.

Thanks

Jason

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  • John Perry
    Posted by John Perry
    on Jul 20 2012 13:26 PM
    Intellectual1650 points

    Jason,

    Can you be more specific about which schematic you used and any changes which were made compared to what is published?

    It would also be helpful if you could detail the operating conditions:

    • VIN range
    • Number of LEDs in series
    • LED part number and characteristics (Vf)
    • How was the micro connected?  Is it on the same PCB or something external to the LED PCB?
    If it is not confidential a complete schematic would be useful too.
    Regards
    John
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  • Jason Sokoloff
    Posted by Jason Sokoloff
    on Jul 21 2012 18:42 PM
    Prodigy40 points

    Hi John,

    Thanks for the fast reply. The schematic is the same as page 1 of the Nov 2, 2011 LM3414 datasheet.
    Differences are:
    1. Riadj was 6.25k for 500 mA current 
    2. 33uH inductor rather than 47uH
    also
    1. PWM  (for EN input) was 10KHz
    2. LEDs were  Cree with 3.2Vf  (Cree Part# XPEROY-L1-0000-00901)
    3. Used a 9 LED string (total Vf  ~29V) and a power supply adjusted to about 32v. Tested and ran this setup overnight (no PWM input) with no problem
    the micro was on a separate board, powered by the same power supply as the TI part, through a Murata 3.3V DC-DC converter . 
    The two boards also share a common ground and were connected by  a 4 conductor cable. Two signals were gnd and power to the micro.  two conductors delivered PWM to the enables.
    Any help will be appreciated.
    Thanks
    Jason
    PS nice youtube video
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  • John Perry
    Posted by John Perry
    on Jul 23 2012 12:52 PM
    Intellectual1650 points

    Jason,

    I don't see any obvious issues with those component values, especially given that they work in steady-state (no PWM dimming).

    Do you have any scope captures of the ringing at the DIM pin?  From what you have said so far, connecting the dimming signal seems to be at least in part the mechanism which causes the failure.

    Regards,

    John

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  • Jason Sokoloff
    Posted by Jason Sokoloff
    on Jul 23 2012 16:49 PM
    Prodigy40 points

    Hi John,

    I didn't capture the traces.  I can reproduce them if necessary.  First I  will try the again with a filtered signal, once I reconstitute my board.  

    Do you have any reason to believe that negative ringing may have been responsible.

    thanks

    Jason

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  • John Perry
    Posted by John Perry
    on Jul 24 2012 08:19 AM
    Intellectual1650 points

    Jason,

    Unfortunately that is never a simple answer.  All TI datasheets include an absolute maximum ratings table.  Exceeding the values specified may cause irreparable damage to the IC.  In the case of the LM3414 DIM pin, the absolute maximum ratings are (-0.3V) {min} to (6V) {max}.  We cannot make any guarantees about the product if these ratings are exceeded.

    Based upon what you have stated about the LM3414 working properly with no dimming signal applied and becoming damaged when the PWM is connected to the DIM pin, it is a very logical place to start checking for problems.

    Regards,

    John

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  • bowerymarc
    Posted by bowerymarc
    on Aug 24 2012 12:56 PM
    Expert1185 points

    I just ran into a related problem with LM3414, where we're getting some dim-pin related failures (no fires, but apparent failure of the pullup current or input circuitry possibly due to over voltage)

    The data sheet is lacking some needed information about the dim pin.  can you please provide:

    1. equivalent input circuit

    2. Iih and Iil (current at Vih and Vil), and leakage current

    Also I'm trying to figure out how to protect this pin, as I want to drive it from quite a long way away.

    Looking at the block diagram there's a 30uA pullup current source on there - can this be easily damaged via overvoltage?  Would current limiting (resistor) solve this?

    Is it reasonable to use protection diodes to GND and VCC (the VREG output) to protect this pin, or should VCC not be used for this (in which case, maybe a zener or Transil diode)?

    Thanks!

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  • Jason Sokoloff
    Posted by Jason Sokoloff
    on Aug 24 2012 23:00 PM
    Prodigy40 points

    Did you scope the DIM input? - Mine had spikes, although the PWM was from a micro. So the things you say about internal damage are probably true.

    For on/off static use, I tied the DIM to + 5 (needed to generate a 5V supply), or to GND.

    for PWM operation, had to filter: 100 ohm series resistor at the PWM output, then just before the LM3414 a filter: cap and 100ohm resistor 

    The cap and resistor are in series but go from the DIM input to gnd. Use an appropriate cap for your PWM frequency - probably 0.0x uf.

    Look at the signal at the Dim input before and after putting these parts in to make sure you're OK.

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  • bowerymarc
    Posted by bowerymarc
    on Aug 24 2012 23:14 PM
    Expert1185 points

    I didn't 'scope the unit with problems it happened in the field.  It has only happened in 2 units out of hundreds we've built already. 

    Filtering that line with R-C might not be a good idea, as it will create a slow rise/fall time which can't be good.  In any case, the proper filter or protection can't be designed without knowing more about the pin characteristics.

    TI - still waiting for your response.  I'd like the missing information concerning the pin.

    Thanks.

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