This thread has been locked.

If you have a related question, please click the "Ask a related question" button in the top right corner. The newly created question will be automatically linked to this question.

LDC0851 Shielding from Interfering Metal

Other Parts Discussed in Thread: LDC0851, LDC1101

Dear Sir,

We are looking for the ferrite  sheet  tape to be placed on the reference coil .

But still not sure this will resolve issue,

As with coil having lamination of 1mm is not having proximity sensing reduction issue with metal encapsulation.

Please comment

Regards

Seema Joshi

  • Hello Seema,

    I have started a new thread to address this question which is a continuation of the discussion from the following thread: e2e.ti.com/.../505676

    The question appears to be how to properly shield from interfering metals by using a ferrite shield. This is a common technique for our general purpose inductive sensors such as the LDC161x family and LDC131x family. There is additionally a blog that discusses this technique in more detail: e2e.ti.com/.../inductive-sensing-how-to-shield-from-metal-interference

    However, while this technique can also be used for the LDC0851, not all use cases/coil arrangements are supported because of the matching requirements and variability of the ferrite material.

    Ferrite recommended: Side-by-side configuration

    For example, in a side-by-side coil arrangement, the ferrite film can be applied evenly underneath both LSENSE and LREF sensor channels. In this way, both channels see the same inductance offset introduced by the ferrite and any temperature effects of the ferrite are essentially tracked by both channels and cancelled, so the sensing distance will remain more or less unchanged.

    Ferrite not recommended: stacked coil configuration

    Now, this technique is NOT well suited for a stacked coil approach. The reason is that applying the ferrite shield to only the LREF sensor side will introduce an inductance offset that may change over temperature or part-to-part and won't be tracked by both channels. Therefore, you would either need a large enough inductance change on the LSENSE channel caused by the metal to overcome the worst case mismatch (very close proximity) or the flexibility to change the ADJ code dynamically based on the temperature and initial calibration (requires system level characterization and temperature reading).

    It is recommended to design the system ideally such that either interfering metals are far enough away to not make an impact, or use a side-by-side coil implementation with ferrite, or use a device with a high resolution output (like LDC131x, LDC161x, or LDC1101) to make a decision about the incoming metal. Otherwise, bringing an interfering metal closer to the sensors will change the inductance reading/reduce range and a stacked coil implementation with the LDC0851 and there are only a limited number of options on what you can do.

    The only other option is an advanced technique that can be applied if the interfering metal is at a fixed position and NOT dynamically moving. You can skew the coil inductances (add more inductance to LREF sensor) so that nominal inductance with the fixed metal housing present produces a ratio of LSENSE / LREF ≈ 1. This will then effectively cancel the inductance offset by the metal and keep the switching distance similar to the unshielded/matched coil inductance case. This is of course a bit harder to do without either using an advanced simulator tool to calculate the exact inductances with metal present, such as ADS, or by making a few different coil designs with various inductance offsets to fine tune the inductance (easier if you can afford a few different coil iterations). If you decide to go this route, you can use the "Spiral_Inductor_Designer" tab from inductance calculator tool for a rough approximation and iterate the coil design by subtracting inner turns from LSENSE (or by adding inner turns to LREF): www.ti.com/.../slyc137

    I should note that these coil designs would only be applicable for the shielded cases. They would perform worse for the unshielded case and for that scenario it is still recommended to use matched coils as you've already done.

    Regards,
    Luke LaPointe

  • Hi Luck.

    Can you please explain in more detail about the temperature effect due to ferrite. 

    WHat ever change in offset that can it be managed during sensor calibration with Radj??

    Regards

    Seema Joshi

  • Hello Luke,
    Please let me know how shall i keep ferrite in case of stacked coil?

    Regards
    seema
  • Hello Seema,
    We've seen that Ferrite sheets can change the permeability over temperature. Note that the high permeability of the ferrite sheet causes the inductance of the coil to increase and be shielded from other metals. Therefore, if the permeability is increasing/decreasing then so is the inductance. For a stacked coil implementation this means the the coil closest to the ferrite will experience more variability from the ferrite over temperature which will impact the switching point. And depending on the severity of the permeability variation it could create enough inductance change to cause the output to change states. For this reason I was recommending not to use ferrites with the stacked coil implementation or at the very least be very cautious of this effect.
    We've also seem some part to part variability of the ferrite sheets, both in terms of thickness and permeability variation. So you could get something working for a single prototype by adjusting the ADJ level, but unless you can calibrate each device and guarantee either the temperature remains static or that there's enough margin in the switching distance to account for the variation it will be very difficult to use the ferrite material for stacked coils. This is the other reason we had recommended either a side-by-side coil layout or a higher resolution LDC to make an intelligent decision about the incoming metal.
    Regards,
    Luke LaPointe
  • Dear Luke,

    Application demands for the stacked coil,we can not use side by side coil, 

    Related to intelligent interface we need to have only the switch output.

    I understood temperature effect is directly proportional to the inductance value.How effectively it will be at what temperatures

    ?? in terms of sensing distance??

    Sharing one more observation.

    We tried to stick the ferrite ring on the reference coil surface on the stacked coil  found that the switch remains on.

    Tried taking away ferrite ring from the reference coil surface found switch remains on till ferrite reaches distance aprox to the OD of the coil.

    Please comment about size shape & placement for the ferrite sheet .We need to evaluate the same.

    Shall we try to have the brass shielding instead of steel ??

  • Hello Seema,
    The behavior you are seeing is the result of using the ferrite with stacked coils. As you introduce the ferrite to the bottom side (LREF side), the inductance of the LREF channel will increase. Depending on how much the inductance is increased (compared to the LSENSE channel), it may be enough to cause the output to switch. To counter-act this effect you can increase the ADJ setting which effectively subtracts an inductance offset from LREF. Refer to section 8.3.2 Threshold Adjust Mode of the LDC0851 datasheet. You can use the resistor values shown in Table 1 to select the ADJ value.
    Regards,
    Luke
  • Dear Luck,

    To achieve the height proximity with the coil outer diameter (i.e. 5mm with 15.6mm coil diameter) we have adjusted the Radj to the 1.9K.

    Now as per your suggestion shall  we n try reduce 1.9K to short Radj pin to ground ?? or shall we try increasing value Radj??

    Please advise shall we try sticking ferrite sheet on periphery of the coil?? So that   effect for the ferrite will match??

    Regards

    Seema Joshi

  • Dear Luck,

    We are waiting for your answer on the query mentioned above related to shielded proximity sensing with stacked coil.

    We are through with the non shielded stacked coil proximity 4mm & 5mm . 

  • Hello Seema,
    If the output is ON (0V) with no metal present, then this means that the LSENSE inductance is less than the LREF inductance. This would likely be the result if you add a ferrite sheet beneath a stacked coil configuration. To alleviate this issue, you need to reduce the inductance seen by the LREF channel. You can do this by increasing the ADJ code. Refer to Table 1 of the LDC0851 Datasheet for a list of resistor values that can be used to select the different ADJ codes. Note that this will get your specific demo working, but as I cautioned in the posts above the ferrite material can vary both part-to-part and over temperature which will affect which ADJ level works for each demo.
    For the normal case (without ferrite), the LSENSE and LREF inductances are nominally matched. This is how we typically recommend to use the device because you will get environmental compensation and a repeatable switching distance. If ferrite is used we would recommend a side-by-side coil orientation to keep the inductances on the LREF and LSENSE channels matched.
    Regards,
    Luke
  • Dear Luke ,

    We will try adjusting the Radj to higher value .
    To have consistancy for results
    We are planning to have the standard ferrite sheet .3 mm from wurth electronics www.digikey.com/.../we-fsfs
    to mentain the consistency of ferrite.
    Also we will wrap the same on periphery of the stacked coil so that what ever temperature effect ferrite will provide will affect on both reference as well as sense coil.

    regardS
    Seema Joshi