TMS37157: Request for eval kit and product support for the TMS37157 smart RFID chip

Hello William,

Sorry to hear you have been experiencing degrading support over the years.

Regarding E2E, I reviewed our past correspondence and I am sorry that you feel the answers are not complete enough, but I was not left with the impression that we had failed to address your concerns on prior threads.

In general, many of our software offerings are meant to be a starting point and not necessarily production ready. We design and manufacture IC's, not provide turnkey solutions. We do try and offer strong software where possible, such as for our HF RFID/NFC reader where we offer a full NFC stack, but generally such offerings are done when there can be clearly defined use cases and standards to follow such as the NFC Forum's standards.

In comparison, LF RFID has too broad of a set of use cases and applications to define a software base to cover all users, and therefore the software offerings are at a basic level so each of our customers can adapt our hardware to their specific system.

Also you mentioned that software is not available, but I did not see any requests for specific software in your prior posts, so I would need some elaboration to comment on that portion. We do have some automotive LF RFID parts and due to the nature of automotive LF RFID, resources regarding those require NDA's. Perhaps the software you couldn't get was specifically for an automotive application?

For antenna design, the expectation has always been that customers will design their own antennas based on their needs. This is true for HF RFID as well. If you feel our documentation needs improvement to be more clear, please let us know what portions gave you problems or misled you so we can review them and see what updates can be done to improve the guides.

Lastly regarding the point of having a person to talk with directly, if what you need is LF RFID expertise, this is the place to get answers and support. We are the product experts. LF RFID is not a simple technology and requires years of experience to support, so our field engineers rely on our team when they have customers that have issues regardless.

So with all of this said, what specific questions can we try and help address to the best of our abilities?

Hi Ralph...sorry if my post came of as a bit of a rant...but I REALLY miss the days when FAE's were readily accessible, and TI went out of its way to provide technical support for product development using their products.
First, we are trying to develop an application for the smart RFID system based on the TMS37157 for reading MSP430 managed data collection in a veterinary/agriculture application with the data acquisition package located inside a barrel of water. We already have verified in the field that there are vendors that can read simple tags in this environment based on equipment used to tag and count fish through many feet of water. Our present goal is to develop an eval board that we can also quickly field test based on the TMS37157. This has been rather painful since TI elected to terminate support for the Eval kit for this chip--there is even a picture of it in the back of the manual that came with the RI-ACC reader! The tag that came with that kit included a standalone TMS-MSP pair that we could have had in the field and tested many months ago, and made a go/no-go decision on the project, and without the need to lay out a replacement board, and try to get it operational.
Also, the TMS data sheet clearly specifies a 2.66 mH antenna, which was not readily available from Neosid or TI, or as a standard value from any of the normal ferrite antenna manufacturers, which caused further delays while we tried to work with the antennas that were available, but of the wrong inductance. Coilcraft (to whom go many thanks and kudos) finally came through with a ferrite antenna that did meet the stated specifications in the data sheet for the TMS chip--after more weeks of frustrating delay.
Our next step is to get a module pulled together using the TMS37157 chip and an MSP430FR5994 (since the eval boards based on the TMS chip are just not available) and the 5994 was a target chip for many of our new projects/products. I have one of the readers that was used in the original TMS-MSP eval kit (RI-ACC-ADR2-10), and an MRD2EVM. The MRD@EVM works fine with the sample tags included (including one of the tags we field tested with the fish counting system), and provides excellent test tools, but does not recognize the TMS37157 chip on either of the simple eval boards we built. One board includes the MSP MCU, while the other is designed to connect to an existing data logger through a SPI port.
The RA-ACC kit finally arrived, but the included documentation (SCBU051) specifically calls for "AES DEMO SOFTWARE" and the links in the manual do not go anywhere useful. Search's for this software on the TI site also return no hits. The software I eventually found through vague references on the E2E site does talk to the eval board, but is an extremely simplistic GUI (even compared to the MRD2EVM), and also does not find the TMS chips. We are particularly interested in the RI-ACC module because of its larger antenna and higher power capability, and that it was originally part of the TMS-MSP eval kit, and supposedly supported development of that combination of chips.
So, my questions are:
1. where and how do I get the original software for the RI-ACC module that was described in the manual, or PREFERABLY the software described in the original documentation for the TMS-MSP Eval Kit? Or is there something better than the PALFI GUI I found? We started this project on the assumption that support for the chip would be much more readily available, and in much better depth than I have seen so far.
2. Since TI does not effectively support the TMS chip through easily accessible eval modules, is this chip going to be in production for the foreseeable future, or is the lack of (or difficulty in getting) support an indication that it should not be used for new designs?
3. With the correct antenna, recommended trim capacitors, and other passive support components around the chip, why will neither of the readers I have detect it? I believe it should work stand-alone without the micro as far as being simply recognized by the reader, and being able to read the memory pages. Am I wrong in this belief? Or, is it mandatory that a MCU be attached to the chip through the SPI port? Is there some setup that needs to be done that is not obvious in the data sheet for the part? I know there are antenna trimming processes in the firmware for optimizing the communications, but how can the chip accept external power and start up to execute this process by itself?
4. I will be happy to send schematics of what we are doing with our own boards, but the simple version is pulled directly from the data sheet. just let me know, and I'll strip off the proprietary parts and send a PDF.
5. If there are folks out there who have successfully developed applications using the TMS chip with an MCU, I would sure appreciate some referrals!
Help! Please!
Kelly

Hello William,

Our LF expert has recently begun helping directly on E2E, so I need to defer to him on a couple topics, but I can comment on a few points.

1. I am thinking the original software you are referring to is the AES Demo Software pictured in the manual right? If so, that is not available. Regarding the 'TMS-MSP Eval Kit' software, do you mean the RFID Demo Software from this Manual? www.ti.com/.../slau281b.pdf - If so the PaLFI Demo Software is a newer version of that software. Is the PaLFI Demo Software missing a feature from the older version or not operating correctly?

2. The TMS37157 will continue to be produced and there are no plans to make the device a Not Recommended for New Designs (NRND) device.

Hello William,

regarding your question number 3.

You are right, with the correct resonance circuit and a load capacitor (220nF) attached to the VCL pin you should be able to get a response from the TMS37157. A connection to  the MSP vi SPI is not necessary.

When you measure at the VCL pin you should see a charge up to a voltage between 3V and 6V when sending a command from the reader. This would be a good sign that the resonant circuit is ok and energy is transferred to the load capacitor.

The Development Tool User's Guide:

http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/slau281b/slau281b.pdf

contains the link to the RFID Demo Software:

http://www.ti.com/general/docs/lit/getliterature.tsp?baseLiteratureNumber=swrc164&fileType=zip

This software works with RI-ACC-ADR2.

Best regards,

Helfried Vollbrecht

 

 

Hello Helfried!

I have both of the documents/software files you identified. However, I am still not able to communicate with the VERY simple TMS37157 module we created to replace the original board provided with the ez430-TMS37157 eval kit.  I will try to insert the schematic and assembly files for your review in case we have missed something very fundamental. We have had 10 of the little boards assembled professionally using the parts specified on the SLAU281b  for the TMS37157 eval module, and the swrs083a data sheet for the chip. We are also using a ferrite antenna from Coilcraft that appears to be a direct replacement for the Neosid part used in the design. Our testing confirms 2.66 mH and Q>60.

First, I set up the MRD2EVM with its PALFI DEMO GUI software, and verfied that it could read the sample tags included with the kit. Next, I tried to read five of our proto tags, with NO TRANSPONDER DETECTED. This test was repeated using the PALFI Transponder tab as well, again with NO TRANSPONDER DETECTED.

Using the RI-ACC-ADR2, I was unable to detect any of the sample tags, and got no repsonse on READ PAGE either.

If the schematics and assembly drawing files come through, could you take a look at them for any obvious mistakes?  If they don't come thru, could you send me a link to email them?

My next step will be to put a scope on the VCL line and see what sort of voltages we are getting.

Kelly

T7 Tag Assembly Drawings.pdfT7-TMS add-on card SCHEMATIC.pdf

HA! The [expletive deleted] that laid out the board mirrored the pins in the library. Looks like another month before we will be ready to test another iteration. It would have REALLY HELPED to get one of the PALFI Eval boards from TI as a known working benchmark. Having one in hand would have saved at least 2-3 months of development effort. Could anyone explain why this board/eval kit is no longer available?

Since I won't know if our issues are really resolved until we get another prototype PCB set made, I would like to keep this thread open for now.

Hello William,

Probably not the answer you will want to hear but the reason the kit was taken down was due to a procurement issue. Specifically, the antenna for the reader device in that EVM was made no longer available so we couldn't properly outfit the kit and it was pulled as a result.

Regarding keeping the thread open, we do not keep threads open for a month or longer, in fact this will automatically lock in 30 days. I suggest that we close this specific thread, and when you have results please make a new thread by coming to this one and clicking "Ask a Related Question". Helfried & I monitor the forums daily so your new thread won't be missed by us!

Hi Ralph!
I know about the RI-ACC-ADR2-10 reader antenna issue...as I was able to order and finally get the reader with the antenna a few weeks ago as a separate item (NOT part of the ez430-TMS eval kit) through the TI Store, and the MRD2EVM reader is off the shelf in the TI store and at Mouser. So, getting a READER is not the issue.
However, I suspect that the real problem was the same problem I (and a multitude of others) encountered with NEOSID and their US sales representatives--totally useless. The good news is that there IS a replacement that I found after many months of trying. COILCRAFT has a comparable part. The exact value is not shown on their website, but it IS a standard part for them, and they kindly sent me a short reel of samples. It's built to order, but the delay is only a week or so, and their pricing is a tiny fraction of what Neosid wanted (<$1 in small quantities). I've put several thru our impedance analyser and they all come out 2.66 mH +/- .01, with Q's >60. The part number is 4513TC-275XGLB. You can get dimensions and other specs for the series (4513TC) at www.coilcraft.com/4513tc.cfm
Even getting some of the bare TMS37157 Tag boards that were in the ez420-TMS37157 Eval kit would even be a great help right now...we can hand assemble one or two for testing....But having TI put them back into available inventory--even as a stand-alone item) would be a fantastic help for future development, and support of what is potentially a very useful product.
As far as the thread goes, I understand the need to close it. But if there is any way to get the one of the tag boards from the original kit (stuffed or bare!), I'd be willing to jump thru many hoops!
Best Regards, Kelly

Hello Kelly,

I sent you an E2E friend request so we can open up a private message to get your shipping info. We can send you two boards.