CC1310, 868MHz, Balun

Michael Senghaas

Prodigy 60 points

Other Parts Discussed in Thread: CC1310, CC1101

Is there a balun that can be used with the CC1310 at 868MHz?

over 8 years ago

0 TER over 8 years ago

TI__Guru**** 317180 points

Integrated balun for the 868 MHz band is currently under development.

0 Michael Senghaas over 8 years ago in reply to TER

Prodigy 60 points

Is there any information about this device under development (footprint for example) because I am trying to extimate the amount of pcb area for my board (which has to be as tiny as possible)?

0 Sverre over 8 years ago in reply to Michael Senghaas

TI__Mastermind 39860 points

The size will be 2 x 1.25 from one manufacturer and 1.6 x 0.8 mm from a second one.

0 Mark Ackerson over 8 years ago in reply to Sverre

TI__Genius 10190 points

Do we have manufacturer and part numbers for the 868 MHz balun? What about 915 MHz? Please advise.

Thanks,
Mark

0 RGW over 8 years ago in reply to Mark Ackerson

TI__Mastermind 29570 points

Hi Mark,

The part number from Johanson will be 0850BM14x0016 were x = variant which is not yet fixed.

The part number from Murata will be LFB18868MBG9E212.

Samples are not yet available.

The balun will cover both 868 MHz and 915 MHz.

Regards,

Richard

0 Igor Sherer over 8 years ago in reply to RGW

Guru 31280 points

Hi Richard,

Any plans on integrating a 433MHz balun?

0 RGW over 8 years ago in reply to Igor Sherer

TI__Mastermind 29570 points

Hi Igor,

There are plans for a 433 MHz as well.

Regards,
Richard

0 Igor Sherer over 8 years ago in reply to RGW

Guru 31280 points

Thanks,

Do you have a rough estimation when such reference design will be available for customers?

0 RGW over 8 years ago in reply to Igor Sherer

TI__Mastermind 29570 points

Expecting the CC1310 868/915 MHz IPC ref design to be ready in Q1/Q2-2016.

Regards,

Richard

0 chen royce over 8 years ago in reply to RGW

Prodigy 220 points

Hi, Richard,

When is ready for the balum whichs covers 868 and 915MHZ from Murata and Johanson?
And there is some guide for tuning the discrete LC network for CC1310 RF part?
Thanks!

BR,
Yong

0 RGW over 8 years ago in reply to chen royce

TI__Mastermind 29570 points

Hi,

The CC13xx IPC 868/915/920 MHz balun should be ready in Q1/Q2-2016.

For the discrete design. Recommend to follow the exact values used in the reference designs since these values have been optimized for both Tx and Rx.

Regards,

Richard

0 Henrik Sandaker Palm over 8 years ago in reply to RGW

Intellectual 975 points

Will the Johanson or Murata part be the same footprint layout as any existing part?

0 LUIS SANCHEZ CANO over 8 years ago in reply to RGW

Prodigy 50 points

Any news about CC1310, 868MHz, Balun?

Regards,

Lusan

0 TER over 8 years ago in reply to LUIS SANCHEZ CANO

TI__Guru**** 317180 points

The IPC will not be pin compatible with an existing part.

The IPC is still under development, release Q2/ Q3

0 rifo over 7 years ago in reply to TER

Expert 1105 points

Hello,

Will we able to ask for samples for the balun beforehand? If yes, can you please give us part number?

thanks

0 TER over 7 years ago in reply to rifo

TI__Guru**** 317180 points

No. For the time being we don't have anything to share because the performance is not where we want it to be. When the IPC has the wanted performance they will hit the market shortly after we give the ok.

0 Kamesh Kumar Subramaniyan80430 over 7 years ago in reply to chen royce

Prodigy 175 points

Hi Richard,

Whether integrated Balun for CC1310 is available now.

Regards,

Kamesh

0 LUIS SANCHEZ CANO over 7 years ago in reply to Kamesh Kumar Subramaniyan80430

Prodigy 50 points

Any news about CC1310 , 868MHz, Balun? Regards, Lusan

0 TER over 7 years ago in reply to LUIS SANCHEZ CANO

TI__Guru**** 317180 points

The IPC is not available but it looks like samples will be available some time this summer. The schedule has not been set yet.

0 Andrew G over 7 years ago in reply to TER

Intellectual 900 points

How many discrete components will this balun be replacing? Does the availability of samples later this summer mean that the performance is finally where TI wants it to be?

0 Henrik Sandaker Palm over 7 years ago in reply to Andrew G

Intellectual 975 points

Looks like you'll replace around 10 passives with this balun. You can get an idea by looking at baluns for earlier devices for CC1110 and other TI transcievers. I know of one manufacturer that are releasing a new part in a couple of months and details are available if you sign an NDA. I will send you the manufacturers name in a PM, I don't know why TI has not mentioned who they are but it's pretty obvious at least but I'm not gonna be the first one namedropping them here.

0 RGW over 7 years ago in reply to Andrew G

TI__Mastermind 29570 points

Hi,

The CC1310 IPC can replace all the passives connected to the RF_P, RF_N and RX_TX pads in the standard ref design that covers 779 MHz to 928 MHz.

Johanson part number for CC1310 IPC: 0850BM14E0016

For the Johanson CC1310 IPC datasheet, please contact ijohnson@johansontechnology.com or mcarmona@johansontechnology.com.

Samples will be available in August and RTM in September.

Attached ref design for the evaluation module.

Regards,

Richard

CC1310IPC4XD-7793 Rev 1_0_0.zip

0 RGW over 7 years ago in reply to Henrik Sandaker Palm

TI__Mastermind 29570 points

Hi,

We have been working with both Johanson and Murata on the CC1310 IPC for 779 MHz to 928 MHz. Both parts are drop-in replaceable.

The Johanson part has RTM in September.

The Murata IPC part has not yet been fully approved but the performance is good and this will soon be available as well.

No other vendors have been tested from TI.

Regards,
Richard

0 Mike Bisch over 7 years ago in reply to chen royce

Intellectual 370 points

The Johanson balun is going to require a bias voltage on pin 2 which connects to "RX_TX bias" of the 1310 radio. How do I know what voltage is needed on that pin or does the radio generate that. A simpler version of the question is "Do I simply connect RX_TX bias" to the "RX_TX" pin of the balun?

0 TER over 7 years ago in reply to Mike Bisch

TI__Guru**** 317180 points

We will release a reference design with schematic/ layout that will show how to connect the IPC and how to do the layout. We aim to make this a easy as possible to use so the IPC should be connected directly to the RF pins of CC13xx.

0 Sani300 over 7 years ago in reply to RGW

Prodigy 80 points

Is still not ready at this time ? (Ref design CC1310 bulun)

Regards

Edouard

0 RGW over 7 years ago in reply to Sani300

TI__Mastermind 29570 points

Hi Edouard,

The CC1310 IPC (Integrated Passive Component) from Johanson Technology is finalized. Samples are now available.

See attached reference design for the CC1310 IPC.

Please contact Manuel Carmona <mcarmona@johansontechnology.com> or Ian Johnson <ijohnson@johansontechnology.com> for the IPC datasheet.

There will be an application note (SWRA524) as well to accompany the reference design. This should be on the net during August month.

Copy the reference design. In particular the distance from the IPC to the chip should not be changed.

Regards,

Richard

CC1310IPC4XD-7793 Rev 1_0_1.zip

0 RGW over 7 years ago in reply to Mike Bisch

TI__Mastermind 29570 points

Yes.

The CC1310 reference design should be followed:

7633.CC1310IPC4XD-7793 Rev 1_0_1.zip

0 sivan_toledo over 7 years ago in reply to RGW

Expert 1555 points

Richard, I understood from Johanson that they don't plan an IPC for 434 MHz. Will Murata's release one? Thanks, Sivan Toledo

0 Steven3w over 7 years ago in reply to RGW

Intellectual 825 points

hi, Richard,
I have a case under design, and want to try this IPC. I found the reference design you gave here is 4x4 CC1310, and I would use 7x7 CC1310. Is there a reference design for 7x7 cc1310? And are there any thing you think to remind me for attention?

Regards

Steven

0 Sverre over 7 years ago in reply to Steven3w

TI__Mastermind 39860 points

There is no 7x7 ref design using the IPC available. Use the CC1310EM-7793 reference design you find on the CC1310 landing page as a starting point. Replace the balun and filtering with the IPC as done in the 4x4 IPC reference design.

0 Steven3w over 7 years ago in reply to Sverre

Intellectual 825 points

thank you Sverre for your answer.

The bias is a DC output of the CC1310, isn't it? So the bias line is not a RF line. Is my understanding right?

0 Sverre over 7 years ago in reply to Steven3w

TI__Mastermind 39860 points

Your understanding is correct

0 Steven3w over 7 years ago in reply to Sverre

Intellectual 825 points

Thank you Sverre.

0 jun jun over 7 years ago in reply to Steven3w

Intellectual 300 points

Because of space constraints ，we must use the Balun from Murata ；

When is ready for the balun which covers 868 and 915MHZ from Murata ？

0 TER over 7 years ago in reply to jun jun

TI__Guru**** 317180 points

The Johanson balun and the Murata balun have the same footprint as far as I know, why do you need the Murata part?

0 jun jun over 7 years ago in reply to TER

Intellectual 300 points

thanks for your help :

Johanson balun size is 2 x 1.25 ，Murata balun size is 1.6*0.8 ;two chip size is different .

I have not found any detailed information about Murata balun ，eg Chip package information reference design samples and RTM etc

0 Henrik Sandaker Palm over 7 years ago in reply to jun jun

Intellectual 975 points

New 0850BM14E0016 from Johanson for CC1310 is the same size, 1.6x0.8, as the Murata part.

0 RGW over 7 years ago in reply to jun jun

TI__Mastermind 29570 points

Just to confirm both Murata and Johanson have the same size: 1.6 x 0.8 mm

0 sivan_toledo over 7 years ago in reply to RGW

Expert 1555 points

Richard, do you know if Murata is going to produce a similar IPC for 434MHz? Johanson send me an email that they do not plan to release one. This is a step back from the ecosystem of the CC1101 etc.

0 RGW over 7 years ago in reply to sivan_toledo

TI__Mastermind 29570 points

Hi,

Agree that the ecosystem for the CC1101 IPC does also support 434 MHz. There are discussions for a CC1310 434 MHz version but this is dependent on customer demands.

Regards,
Richard

0 jun jun over 7 years ago in reply to Henrik Sandaker Palm

Intellectual 300 points

hellow ：

for CC1310IPC4XD-7793 Rev 1_0_1 disign files ，We will also use this antenna ；

so would you like to tell me Antenna Match components Value （ C16 L15 L15 R2 )

B.R

0 TER over 7 years ago in reply to jun jun

TI__Guru**** 317180 points

The matching components we give in our reference designs are valid for that design but if you change the PCB size etc you would probably have to re-tune the antenna. Also note that the antenna tuning often is a function of the casing of your product, I have seen that the plastic could shift the antenna resonance by 100 MHz.

0 jun jun over 7 years ago in reply to TER

Intellectual 300 points

thanks for your help ：

In reference design file "BOM and PnP - CC1310IPC4XD-7789 Rev1_0_1" ,

R2 is 0Ω, C16 is DNM_0402 , L15 & L16 is THB ; C16 L15 L16 do not give recommended value .

0 Steven3w over 7 years ago in reply to TER

Intellectual 825 points

Ter,

This is interesting. Which way it shifted to?

regards

Steven

0 TER over 7 years ago in reply to Steven3w

TI__Guru**** 317180 points

Steven3w: It's not given that it shift to a given side, this will depend on material and the total solution.

Jun Pei: We haven't tuned the antenna on this design but no tuning components should not be far from optimal.

0 Steven3w over 7 years ago in reply to TER

Intellectual 825 points

thanks anyway

0 Zdenek Vasicek over 7 years ago in reply to RGW

Prodigy 30 points

Dear Richard,

is there a plan to release reference design for two layer PCB? The problem of reference designs with 4 layers is that they use materials that are not typically available (e.g. 1.14mm FR4). On the other hand, two-layer 0.8mm FR4 seems to be a quite common material.

0 TER over 7 years ago in reply to Zdenek Vasicek

TI__Guru**** 317180 points

We have no plans for a 2-layer design since in this case a 4-layer design gives better harmonic performance.

Note that the most important parameter here will be the distance between layer1 and layer2. The thickness of the PCB is less important.

0 Zdenek Vasicek over 7 years ago in reply to TER

Prodigy 30 points

Thank you very much for your quick response.

Just to be sure. Is it please expected that common 7628 prepreg (with thickness equal to 0.175mm) will be used between L1 and L2, and between L3 and L4? For core, there are two quite common possibilities for FR4 - 1.0mm or 1.2mm.

Is it possible to somehow guess whether there is a large drop in performance when 0.180mm is used instead of 0.175mm?

Thank you for your response.

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CC1310, 868MHz, Balun