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Bluetooth 4.0 phones

Other Parts Discussed in Thread: CC2540

Hi,

It's been talked about before, but I'll bring it up again cause it seems like there is actually something happening.

 

Bluetooth 4.0 hardware in phones:

Nokia N9

Iphone 4S

Samsung Galaxy S II

Motorola RAZR

more?

 

Can anyone confirm that Bluetooth 4.0 is actually implemented in software and working in any of the above phones?

Best regards from Denmark,

Klaus

  • N9: I doubt it, I think they were late and it never made it into Meego 1.2

    iPhone 4S: ATT client APIs supported: https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/CoreBluetooth/Reference/CoreBluetooth_Framework/_index.html

    Galaxy S II: Hardware yes, but Gingerbread has no support for BLE

    RAZR: No idea

     

  • For Galaxy S II,  Broadcom interestingly offers some Android code in a Google code project that could be useful:

    http://code.google.com/p/broadcom-ble/

    (I haven't yet reviewed or tried it.)

    For Droid RAZR, yes according to Motorola press release announcing the product:

    http://www.vzbuzz.com/2011/10/motorola-verizon-announces-droid-razr-pre-orders-starting-october-27th-for-299-99/

    (I have no clue as yet as to the Droid RAZR Bluetooth chip set.)

  • Thanks for the information !

    I have some basic question about these DUAL MODE bluetooth chips. I understand that they CAN NOT communicate with BR/EDR bluetooth and LE bluetooth at the same time.

    Is this correct ?

    Thanks.

  • You are right.

  • So this means I have to configure somehow the phone to switch between BR/ EDR mode to LE mode.

    I did not find how to do it in Broadcom's API. Any ideas ?

    And a more general question :

    How will the user experience of a smart phone user look like ? If someone uses a bluetooth device like a headset, then one can't communicate with LE devices ? 

     

  • Bluetooth channels are 1 MHz in bandwidth.

    BLE channels are 2 MHz in bandwith. If they do not duplicate the transceiver stage, I do not think you can work simultaneously since the RF will be busy and used in a different manner, even if the circuitry is shared.

  • Hello All,

    Are there any members, who have succeeded in connecting CC2540 Keyfob with Droid RAZR? If yes, kindly describe the steps.,

    Your help is much appreciated.,

    Thanks and best regards,

    Nagaraj Hegde

  • I haven't yet worked with the RAZR, but this link on a Motorola web site might be a good place to start:

    http://developer.motorola.com/docstools/library/bluetooth-low-energy-api/

  • I have "connected"  the cc2540 with the RAZR, by using the connect to device from the android menu. I saw in the packet sniffer that a link was established, and then the RAZR started a pairing process which my application did not support. I dont know how to control the BLE stack on the RAZR except the basic API Motorola provides. But the BLE link layer seems to work.

  • Kazola,

    You are right that a dual-mode radio cannot simultaneously receive BLE and BR/EDR unless it has duplicated reception stages. However, since the radio in the phone is always the BLE master, it is able to adjust the timing of the BLE connection events so that they don't overlap with BR/EDR events. So, in practice, you can keep several links up at the same time (BLE and BR/EDR), even though you cannot receive (or transmit) two packets simultanously.

    Best regards,

    Karl

  • This is so good, and different from what I've been reading all this time :)

    So obviously you cannot work simultaneously but you can switch fast enough to be considered simultaneously? I did not know that. Thanks!

    On the other hand... are you saying the BLE in phones will never be able to act as slaves?

  • Yes, that's the gist of it. I can listed to music over A2DP from my iPhone at the same time the iPhone talks to BLE devices.

    BLE in phones (or other hub dual-mode devices) cannot be slaves, as that would render them unable to adjust the timing (masters control the timing of connection events). So, BLE is essentially a star network with the phone/PC/tablet/whatever as the hub. You can get around this by using broadcasts. People are talking about topology extension to enable masters to communicate with masters over BLE, but this will require changes to the standard, and will therefore take time.

    If you want to draw a very rough analogy, BLE is more like USB (PCs are always masters, protocol is pretty asymmetric), regular Bluetooth is more like Firewire (more of a peer-to-peer, symmetric protocol).

    Best regards,

    Karl

  • Redacted, duplicate message

  • I tried loading one of the sample projects from the broadcom-ble project on to an AT&T Galaxy S2 but I got an error saying that a shared library must be installed. Do you know how to install the library without having to root the phone?

    Thanks,

    Vicente

  • I'm trying to do the same thing. Have you had any luck? I can pair the Razr with the fob with no problem. I got the Motorola_BLE_profile_sample running and can step through in Eclipse, but honestly, I have no real clue to how to do this.

    If anyone has had any luck, could you please share what you did, so the rest of us don't have to spend days figuring this out? My short-term goal is to be able to read the key fob's accelerometer in my Droid app as a proof of concept.

    Thanks much in advance!

  • Hello, Karl.

    Is it possible to adjust the timings, when the connection interval is low (about 20 msecs ?)

    I saw that the default connection interval of the RARZ phone is 320 msecs, which allows a rediculously slow data rate. 

    Thanks.

  • @ TI,

    I saw this video posted at your website :

    http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/video/Portal.tsp?lang=en&entryid=0_ovmio0zj&sp_rid_pod4=ODM5Mzc3MDE4NgS2&sp_mid_pod4=38768684

    Can you please give more info on this and are there open source resources/wiki available to connect CC2540 with Droid Razr similar to iOS?

    Thanks and best regards,

    Nagaraj 

  • Nagaraj,

    I also saw that video and asked about getting a copy of the source code. I was told that it was proprietary or some such nonsense.

    So, TI guys, what's the point in showing that video to developers showing that it CAN be done, but not HOW it's done.  You want developers to use your product, we want to use your product, but we are forced to go through ridiculous hoops.

    Mark Boettcher

    Senior Computer Scientist

    Applied Research Associates, Inc.

    (802) 728-7431

    mboettcher@ara.com

  • Mark,

    Thats really surprising., I have seen many community members, including me, all eager to get this set up working., I don't understand the point in making iOS app open source and hiding the Droid app., 

    @TI, we are using Android platform since quite some time now and definitely that will be our first choice to develop BLE applications as well., It will be great if you can show us how you made Droid razor working with CC2540.,

    Thanks so much,

    -Nagaraj Hegde

  • Mark and Nagaraj,

    The iOS app was made by us TI in Oslo and we put the iOS source code on the wiki as fast as we could. The Android App shown in the heart rate video (RAZR) was not made by us and therefore we could not put it on the wiki.

    However, we will put Android code snippets and projects on the wiki, as soon as we have some. For support regarding RAZR and the Motorola BLE API, please refer to the Motorola support. We have no "Android developers" in-house. 

    Br

  • Nick,

    Thanks for the clarification. I posted in another thread about this, but this looks like the right place here to ask. Using the Motorola_BLE_profile_sample, I managed to hack together enough to get the Razr to actually connect to the fob. I would be more than happy to share all of the Android project/code here in the hopes that someone has the time to look at getting the devices to actually pass messages back and forth. It's mostly Motorola code, so would you rather I did not post it? I would guess that Motorola would not have a problem with that.

    In the meantime, if anyone wants to take a look, I will email it to them directly.

    Mark

  • Hi,

    As Nick L says the app you see in the video is not made by TI and hence we cannot provide the source code. We have however made our own app for the upcoming Sensor Tag, for a sneak peak of the sensor tag and access to our source code please go to our WIKI page: http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Category:MotoRAZRAndroidBLEDemo

    Best regards

    delete

  • Hi,

    This information is really useful. Could you please direct me to any specific document that describes more on this Topic? 

    Is there any kind of work around to switch the phone BLE mater to slave, so that headset can communicate with phone over BLE?

  • Late on this thread, but I would love to have a look at your code please - (v a r t u r a s [at] h o t m a i l)

  • Hello,

    I would like to know if someone has a little example where Samsung S2 with 4.0.3 can check if it is able to use BLE.
    I have a code but I can not start the BleAdapter in this point:

    CommandCapture cmd = new CommandCapture(0,
    "CLASSPATH='/system/framework/btle-framework.jar:/system/framework/am.jar' " +
    "/system/bin/app_process /system/bin " +
    "--nice-name=btle-framework " +
    "android.bluetooth.le.server.Main");
    try {
    RootTools.getShell(true).add(cmd);
    Thread.sleep(100);
    } catch (Exception e) {
    e.printStackTrace();
    }