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RI-TRP-DR2B: About RFID TAG 'RI-TRP-DR2B-40'

YUNMI CHOI
Prodigy 100 points
Part Number: RI-TRP-DR2B

 

    This TDIN Co., Ltd. importer and distributor in Seoul Korea.
I'm Yunmi Choi, Assistant Manager of Trading Department.

About RFID TAG 'RI-TRP-DR2B-40'    We ordered RFID TAG 'RI-TRP-DR2B-40'(15,000EA), through MOUSER KOREA.

    

Invoice

Shipped

Customer   PO

Part   Number

Qty   Shipped

Issue   COO

Date   Code

Lot Code

43590109

2017-03-15

11768854

595-RI-TRP-DR2B-40

4000

MY

1640 

0575445Z47 

43590109

2017-03-15

11768854

595-RI-TRP-DR2B-40

2000

MY

1644 

6046850WEI 

 

Invoice

Shipped

Customer   PO

Part   Number

Qty   Shipped

Issue   COO

Date   Code

Lot Code

43207761

2017-02-06

N1702-023

595-RI-TRP-DR2B-40

8000

MY

1636 

6052863WEI 

 

But, There is a reading issue of RFID TAG reported by my customer. The RFID tag can't be read intermittently.

They used 'RI-TRP-DR2B-30' before and had no problem until now.

They said it’s the first time the issue is occurred, and this issue is occurred as soon as they changed the 'RI-TRP-DR2B-30' to 'RI-TRP-DR2B-40'.

 

Please let me know the reasons why the reading is not working well and how to cope with it.

In addition, The appearance is slightly different as the glass was dark for -40 instead of transparent for the -30 revision.

Is it possible to cause tag reading error due to this reason?

    

What are the internal and external factors that can not read?

Do you have any ideas what factors can be make this reading problem?

    

If there is no functional problem, Is there a way that  reading can do well?

Did you got any complains like this from any other customers you have?

What other measures did you offer if other customers complain about it?

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Thank you.

 

Sincerely

Yunmi Choi

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

TDIN Co., Ltd. 

Trading Department

Assistant Manager (Ms.) Yunmi Choi

#1213, 10, Bamgogae-ro 1-gil, Gangnam-gu, Seoul, S.KOREA (06349)

Tel : 82-2-6677-3471 Fax : 82-2-6677-3475

E-mail : sales@tdin.co.kr

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

  • 0
    TI__Guru*** 128255 points
    Hello Yunmi,

    I have forwarded your inquiry to the product team and am awaiting feedback.

    One initial question on my end: is the customer using the same orientation for all tests with these tags? The orientation is important for the LF RFID transponder performance as highlighted here: e2e.ti.com/.../1986103
  • 0 in reply to Ralph Jacobi
    Prodigy 100 points
    My customer using the same orientation for all tests with these tags.
    Could you analyze why is the issue occurred if I send you this dysfunctional tags?
    I look forward to hearing from you. I am awaiting feedback.
    It's an urgent message. Please respond as soon as possible.
  • 0 in reply to YUNMI CHOI
    TI__Guru*** 128255 points

    Hello Yunmi,

    First, regarding the different appearance, the -30 version was built with transparent silicon oil as a filler material whereas the -40 is built with solid dark colored silicone. This has no influence on the reading.

    The reading distance for the -30 and -40 in proper orientations and distances to the reader antenna are the same. However, the shape of the coupling area of the transponder antenna and reader antenna can be slightly different at the edges of the RF field between the -30 and -40.

    Based on the description, it sounds like the tags have been used at the edge of the permitted read range. When that is the case, slight variations in antenna/tag position or angle, environmental influence or noise, or the surrounding materials can decide whether the tag can be read or not.

    It must be ensured tags will be positioned inside the ideal read zone, and they should not be positioned at the edge of reading zones. There also must be sufficient read range reserved to compensate for mechanical tolerances and external noise.

    These tags are not tested for behavior at the EDGE of the read zone as this is not the recommended use case and therefore should never be an issue. Performance guarantees are when the tag is kept within the ideal read zone only.

    In summary, -40 tags do not have read range issues when operated in the ideal read zones, which are equivalent for the -30 and -40 devices. Given the issues the customer is facing, they must evaluate how to bring either the tag or the reader antenna closer to ensure that the tags are consistently within ideal read range.

    We will not accept any 'dysfunctional' tags unless the customer can prove beyond doubt that they have placed the tags within the ideal read range for their application and still have issues.

  • 0 in reply to Ralph Jacobi
    Prodigy 100 points
    Thank you for your quick reply.
    What is the proper distance between "reader antenna' and' rfid tagDR2B-40)'?
  • 0 in reply to YUNMI CHOI
    TI__Guru*** 128255 points
    Hello Yunmi,

    This is an application dependent trait as it is determined by the reader antenna (both size and shape) and output power of the reader.

    The recommendation for testing this is to map out the magnetic field pattern by moving the transponder through different locations to locate the edges of the read range. The pattern uncovered should roughly resemble the image I posted above.

    Once the field pattern is determined, ensure the tag location is located well within the read zone defined by the pattern, so that there is sufficient tolerance for the edge of the pattern to account for mechanical variables, environmental noise etc. The tolerances are also application dependent as the size of the field pattern will vary as well, so good judgment must be used by the customer to determine what range will provide them the most robust and reliable solution.
  • 0 in reply to Ralph Jacobi
    Prodigy 100 points

     

     

    Thank you for cooperation.

    I have more questions. (It is very urgent message.)

           

     

    1. As in the "RI-TRP-DR2B-40" SPEC table in the catalog,

    The Typical Read Range specified in the Electrical Characteristics table is below 100 cm.

    But, The REMARK says "Depends on RF regulation in country of use, the reader antenna configuration used, and the environmental conditions."

    Does this mean that there is no problem with distance under 100cm?

     

     

    2. In the attached file, the tag picture.
    Although it is not shown in the picture (unmarked center top, bottom and right side)

    Is it okay if the tag is placed horizontally on the antenna?

     

    3. And as you said, "Once the field pattern is determined, ensure the tag location is located well within the read zone defined by the pattern, so that there is sufficient tolerance for the edge of the pattern to account for mechanical variables, environmental noise etc."

    Would you please explain the specific about the tolerance? And is this possible to compile some figures?

     

    4. If I send the tags that make reading problem, is it possible to analyze the sample?

    5. Please let us know what kind of equipment and method can be used to analyze this reading issue.

     

    If you have any questions or need additional information, please let me know.

    I look forward to hearing from you.

     

    Thank you.

     

    Sincerely

    Yunmi Choi

  • 0 in reply to YUNMI CHOI
    TI__Guru* 91086 points

    Yunmi -

    RE: the 32mm tags reading distance - see attached for idea of what is meant by what is in the data sheet - you will see same reader operated at two popular input voltages with various antennas. 

    the graphs represent max read range which is/was repeatable (from center of read zone) - as known by the magnetic field lines/"lobes" coming off the antenna coil, the transponder will have reduced ranges on the sides

    Metric LF Read Ranges_Antennas_Voltages.ppt

  • 0 in reply to Josh Wyatt
    Prodigy 100 points
    The data sheet that you send me was really helpful.
    I really appreciate it.
    I have some questions about it.

    Yet, my customers say some TAGs are not reading even at a distance of 5cm.
    They are using 31mm glass.

    1. The data sheet you send shows its minimum read range is about 40cm.
    Regardless of the type of antenna,
    is it possible to happen the reading problems that
    TAGs doesn’t work only 5 cm of distance of less than this?

    2. As I mentioned before, if I send the TAGS which are with the reading problem, from my customers to your side(TI),
    Could you do any test or analyze it?


    This is really urgent issue and our company now in serious situations now due to this reading problems.
    I will look forward your prompt reply.

    Thank you for your cooperation.
  • 0 in reply to Ralph Jacobi
    Prodigy 100 points
    1. ‘However, the shape of the coupling area of the transponder antenna and reader antenna can be slightly different at the edges of the RF field between the -30 and -40.’
    → It’s your previous response, in this part, what does the 'shape of the coupling area' means?
    Could you tell me specifically how it is different between 30 and 40 and why?

    2. Please give me specific suggestions to resolve this reading error. I should suggest to my customer the solutions.
    For example, the way to extending the reading range by increasing multiply the voltage or power of the power source connected to the antenna,
    or how to change the orientation of an antenna or RF tag with giving any references specifically ... etc.
    Any solutions that you know would be appreciated, so please help us to resolve this problem.
  • 0 in reply to YUNMI CHOI
    TI__Intellectual 970 points
    Hello Yunmi Choi,
    The specific suggestion to resolve the reading error has been given - ensure the transponder is positioned well within the read zone defined by the RF field of the reader antenna, so that there is sufficient tolerance to the edge of the reading pattern to account for tolerances.

    We do not have any information regarding the used reader, the used reader antenna, the position / orientation of the transponder to the reader. So we can not give you more suggestions as to position the transponder well within the read zone of the reader antenna.

    Best regards,
    Uli
  • 0 in reply to Ulrich Denk
    Prodigy 100 points
    Our company, TDIN ltd,. co., is actually a very small company but your long-term client.

    Even if this case might not be critical issue to you, but we are.

    Our company now face with critical situation of existence.

    Our customer is continually asking the same questions.



    To prove the TAGs are all right, please let us know either any ways or equipment to test if it is well-working or not.



    Again, we are in very serious trouble now and we can do anything except handling this issue.

    There is only one thing left that we can do is just waiting your answer or company might be disappeared.

    Please give us any hope.
  • 0 in reply to YUNMI CHOI
    TI__Intellectual 970 points

    Hello Yunmi Choi,

    As discussed, please provide us additional information to the reader / antenna setup and orientation of the transponder to the reader antenna. I have send you a separate message that you can provide this application specific data directly.

    Best regards,

    Uli

  • 0 in reply to Ulrich Denk
    Prodigy 100 points

    Thank you for your kind reply.

    I have additional questions from the customer.

    1. Is there any possibility to be erased data of RF TAGs by some circumstances?


    -For example, when they touch with magnet, damaged by an impact, vulnerable to humidity, etc.

    Then, please list all the reasons(circumstances) that the tags’ writing data might be removed.

     

    2. If the data of the RF TAGs might be erased in some unexpectable circumstances, does it correspond to all of the TAGs(DR2B-30 & DR2B-40), Regardless of model?

     

    3. If these reading issues are irrelevant to questions 1 and 2, is there absolutely no reason to be erased without any operations such as changing through the reader by whom?

     If this is yes-> Do you mean the data is never erased by itself?

     

    about these questions, if you have any test results that you internally progressed before, please let me know any information about it.

    Thanks & Best Regards,

    CHOI

     

     

  • 0 in reply to YUNMI CHOI
    TI__Guru*** 128255 points
    Hello Choi,

    Since you made a new thread for this I answered the questions there: e2e.ti.com/.../2202692