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TRF1305B2: s-parameter data taken at device pins or on EVB?

Kyle Stickle
Prodigy 10 points
Part Number: TRF1305B2
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: TRF1305C2

Tool/software:

Is the downloadable s-parameter data of the TRF1305B2 deembedded to the package pins, or does it include the external resistors of the Eval Board?

It appears to be taken on the EVB which has 25 ohm Rin_ser and 1000ohm Rin_sh, because the D2D gain is 10dB which matches Table 8-1 of the datasheet with those resistors installed. If this is true, can you provide s-parameters of the device without external resistors?

  • 0
    TI__Intellectual 1990 points

    Kyle,

    Yes, the downloadable s-parameters on TI.com are with the external input resistor network included, and are de-embedded till the 1kΩ Rin_sh. Since the network is very close to the input, components/design post Rin_sh should have minimal effect on performance if you plan to adapt the EVM design for your particular use case.

    Is your request for s-parameters without external input resistors so that you can change those components &/or PCB design?

    I believe you recognize that gain will have a different value, but another challenge I expect is the ac performance out to higher frequencies may suffer too due to how that external input network will interact with the internal input network of the device.

    Keyur

  • 0 in reply to Keyur Tejani
    Prodigy 10 points

    Hi Keyur,

    I would like to model a circuit similar to the one shown in figure 8-6 of the datasheet, but the resistors embedded in the s-parameter data makes it difficult. It would be nice to have s-parameters of the device without any external components such that any circuit using the device can be simulated.

  • 0 in reply to Kyle Stickle
    TI__Intellectual 1990 points

    Ah, noted Kyle.

    So your configuration will be single-ended-to-differential (S2D), right?

    As you can see in plot 6-25, we do have s-parm in S2D config, and those were with de-embedding up to the device pads. Will s3p or s2p file of this config help? We do plan to make this available online and I will check if we have the file already.

    We are also in the process of releasing EVM for S2D configuration.

    Keyur

  • 0 in reply to Keyur Tejani
    Prodigy 10 points

    Hi Keyur,

    Yes, it would be S2D. The plot 6-25 is useful, but an S3P file would let me look at return loss interactions with other devices in the RF chain.

    An s4p file deembedded to the device pads would even be better, that way either one of the input ports could be terminated with any impedance in simulation, and the other input port could be driven single ended.

    Also any update on the 15dB gain variant? I would be interested in data from this part as well.

  • +1 in reply to Kyle Stickle
    TI__Intellectual 1990 points

    Kyle,

    Please find the TRF1305B2's S2D configuration's s-parameter file attached. We plan to upload this on the product folder as well.

    Our goal was to optimize the EVM for best performance, and what got traded off is provision to de-embed all the way to device pads. We were concerned some engineers may perceive the device as subpar as the s-parameters will most likely suffer without that input network and did not expect engineers not wanting to have that input network (in D2D).

    We can remove the 1kΩ Rin_sh and swap the Rin_ser for 0Ω and see the performance we get in the .s4p format. In this case Rin_ser (0Ω) and the input traces will not be de-embedded.

    We are working on TRF1305C2 (15dB gain variant) but I am not able to discuss that device on this public thread.

    Will it be ok if we took this thread direct, and off the public forum?

    Keyur

    TRF1305B2_s-param_S2D.zip

  • 0 in reply to Keyur Tejani
    Prodigy 10 points

    Yes it would be OK to discuss directly.

    thanks