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PGA 2505 low frequency pop-sound

Other Parts Discussed in Thread: PGA2505, OPA1632

Hello,

we have a 16 microphone input decive with the PGA2505 in the preamp section. We do also produce another analogue to digital unit which is also based on the PGA2505. We recently found that some devices fail our QC because of low frequency noise below 200Hz.

I began to investigate the noise issue and found that there are audible low frequency pop sound which look like short signal jumps in the time domain.

See attached picture for the measurement:

As you can see, blue channel is fine, green channel has pop-noise. We nearly tried everything to find the issue. I can exclude the following things:

  • all input circuitry of the PGA. We removed input caps, resistors and the protection diodes. So the PGA inputs were left unconnected
  • the PCB layout. The problem occurs in two different designs with different component layout. (But the same components used)
  • we do not accidentially measure a defective output. The noise is visible in our level metering as well
  • We do not think that the noise comes from a part behind the PGA. I wired the PGA output to an OPA1632 input of an intact channel with the result that the noise occured in the new channel.

The input schematic generally the same linke in the EVM document. At the output of the PGA we feed ab OPA1632.

Some strange effects we found:

  • We took some tweezers and moved them about 0.5mm over the protection diodes. This increased the amount of pop sounds! It was even sensitive to temperature. In cold state there are less pops. But the strange thing is: After we removed the diodes the pops remained constant. They could not be influenced by even touching parts of the circuit.
  • We removed the possibly defective PGA2505. I hard-wired SDO to SDI to beeing able to set gain in the following stages. The issue now switched over th the next channel including the diode-E-field issue.

  • Hello Stefan,

    It sounds like you've done a significant amount of investigating into this pop issue. Thank you for all the detailed information. I'd like a bit more clarification on the failures, specifically:

    • What is the total number of units in your last production run, and what is the approximate rate of failure on these units?
    • Does the pop issue follow the part (if you replace the failing PGA2505 with a new PGA2505, the issue disappears, or if you install a failing PGA2505 on a previously good system the issue appears)?

    Best regards,

    Ian Williams
    Linear Applications Engineer
    Precision Analog - Op Amps

  • Good morning Ian!

    Yes, about 3 weeks now...
    Your 2nd question is a bit hard to replay. Yesterday we found that there are obviously two effects which we have to discuss separately.
    1. The PGA seems to cause the random issues shown in the above picture. These occur without any (recognizable) influence to the circuit. This pop sound is best audible when HF noise is removed with a LPF.
    We changed a PGA and the channel was clean after that. I will put this PGA into another device to see if the problem is caused by the PGA. (If I remember correctly I have tried this already and the PGA was fine in the other device)
    2. We found that the E-field effects and temp influence is only present when the protection diodes are built in (B120-E3). Is it possible that these diodes are a incorrect choice? What reverse current, forward volgate etc. do you suggest?
    Effects can also be caused by heat (or cold) and even blowing in the area around the PGA.
    When diodes are manually heated by air the effects get even worse until an oszillation comes up. Sounds like a sweep over higher frequencies above 500Hz. I would describe the sound like an old AM radio searching a station. This sound also occurs when we toggle _DC bit HIGH = deactivate DC servo.

    I had some units which I could repair by changing the PGA and some were fine after changing the diodes. But many devices remained defecetive aufter changing PGA, diodes or both. Maybe the effect is a combination of both? Eventually the PGA amplifies the disturbance caused by diodes or vice versa.

    Amounts: By now we have built devices with total about 7600 PGA input channels. The problem with random low frequency noise occurs at approx. 60...100 channels.
  • Hello Ian,

    I have some more information for you.
    On one device I changed a PGA which seemed to cause these pop noise. This was in channel 4. The signal which was recorded digitally looked like the picture below. The blue signal is recorded without any filters, green is the same signal but with LPF applied and some gain corrections.

    I changed the PGA. After this I had following picture. Now channel 3 is blue, channel 4 ist green. Both signals recorded without any filters. I'd be glad if you could explain me what happened here...

    Even if not visible in the pictures the time base of both time domain signals is the same.

    Removed protection diodes in ch 4: no different (as expected). Then removed Diodes on Ch 3 also no different.

    I fitted the defective channel 4 PGA into another device and found a disturbance here as well although it looks different here. (Input stage uses the same components like the other device)

    Maybe we should mail you the defective PGA?

    Anyway it looks like there is not only the PGA affected. Possibly the diodes or something else has influence to magnitude and duration of the disturbance.

  • Hello Stefan,

    The influence of the diodes is very interesting, particularly their sensitivity to temperature and airflow. The only time I've seen this effect is when solder flux or other contaminants are still on the PCB. I would be very interested to see if the pop effects remain after a thorough wash in an Ultrasonic bath followed by a warm bake to remove any moisture.

    Best regards,

    Ian Williams

  • Hello Ian,
    I tried to clean the PCB chemically butnot in ultrasonic bath because that's too small for the PCB. No different at all.
    What do you say about the PGA that I could isolate as defective? Maybe it helps if we send it to you?
  • Hello Stefan,

    You may send me failed units so that we can perform a more detailed analysis. I will message you privately in order to start this process.

    Best regards,

    Ian Williams