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Original question:

WEBENCH® Tools/OPA211: Something wrong with the Spice model.

WEBENCH® Tools/OPA211: bug in the program's model import function

Thomas Ellis
Prodigy 50 points
Part Number: OPA211
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: TINA-TI, , LMP8672

Tool/software: WEBENCH® Design Tools

How do you report a bug in the TINA-TI program ? I have been trying to download the model for the OPA2211 using the instructions to create a new macro from the web site. The built-in browser appears but whenever I click on the model file to begin the import the whole program freezes up. One weird thing I noticed is that in the built-in browser the different model revisions appear in a different order than if I pull up the same page in Internet Explorer.  I'm not looking for free "support", just trying to report what seems like a bug.....

  • 0
    Guru 47535 points

    Not sure why you areg oing that way, on the ;product folder there is a tools and development tab, then there is a list of models - you want the TINA reference design then with TINA open, clicking that it opened for me right away? 

    http://www.ti.com/product/OPA211/toolssoftware

  • 0 in reply to Michael Steffes
    Prodigy 50 points

    I wasn't trying to open a reference design, I just followed the instructions in the manual to import the op-amp circuit model so I could use it in my own designs. I didn't try opening the example circuit, but trying to import the model simply freezes the program completely.

  • 0 in reply to Thomas Ellis
    TI__Guru* 93105 points

    Hi Thomas,

    TI is making changes in the way the simulation models are supported and I don't know just yet how bug reporting will be handled moving forward. 

    Can you tell me where you find "instructions in the manual to import the op-amp circuit model?" Did you obtain them from the TINA-TI video, specifically the section about importing models into TINA-TI?

    https://training.ti.com/importing-spice-models-tina-titm-simulator

    Once I have the information I can try importing the OPA211 in the manner that you did and see what happens.

    Regards, Thomas

    Precision Amplifiers Applications Engineering

  • 0 in reply to Thomas Kuehl
    Prodigy 50 points

    Thanks for responding, the instructions started on Page 84 (Section 5.2.1.2) of the TINA Quick Start manual. It is about creating custom macro-models "on the fly" from the web by directly downloading the models from within the TINA internal browser. As soon as I click on the model's link the program freezes, it's not like the download starts then it hangs - it's immediate.

  • 0 in reply to Thomas Ellis
    TI__Guru* 93105 points

    Hello Thomas,

    I couldn't find the TINA Quick Start Manual on line, just TI's TINA Quick Start Guide - which only has 9 pages. I eventually found macro-models "On the fly" in the extensive pdf manual DesignSoft has posted on line. Here is the procedure I followed applied to the OPA211:

    Select: Tools > New Macro Wizard > (selected radio button) From the Web > Browse

    A screen opened and www.ti.com was listed. I accessed the website and searched on the OPA211. The OPA211 web page has the tab, "Design and Development"

    Design and Development > Models > OPA211 Spice Model

    No issues. So in this mode it is another way to get to TI.com where the models reside on the webpages.

    I tried this first with my TINA V9 Industrial version of the program and had no problems when going through the steps several times. I then tried TINA-TI and in general didn't have any issues except one time it froze. I restarted the program, went through the procedure several more times and haven't been able to get it to freeze again. That is certainly a different result than you obtained. I am wondering if it could be related to different versions of the operating systems? I am on the latest version of Windows.

    Regards, Thomas

    Precision Amplifiers Applications Engineering

  • 0 in reply to Thomas Kuehl
    Prodigy 50 points

    Thanks man, that is the way I did it as well but in my case it freezes every time. I am using Windows 7 on a Dell M3800 workstation, so maybe it's a Windows 7 thing. I think I'll try just manually downloading the file separately in IE. I was really just trying to report what I thought was a bug, so maybe it's just an issue with my Windows 7 version. Thanks for trying to help though, I appreciate it.

  • 0 in reply to Thomas Ellis
    Guru 47535 points

    Hello Thomas(s), 

    I run V11 which has a large industrywide model library easily accessed. However --

    As I have mentioned in several articles and e2e posts, those TINA libraries are not updated -and, with the extensive model updating that has been going on with the TI op amp models, the preferred model access path is from the product folders. Those also have issues occasionally (note the recent find that the LMP8672 model delivered in a Webench filter design does not work), but normally load in just fine. 

  • 0 in reply to Michael Steffes
    TI__Guru* 93105 points

    Hi Michael,

    Yes, your findings regarding the simulation model availability via the TINA libraries are valid. I suspect with the new system coming into place regarding local model responsibilities across TI we will have a greater ability to affect how often the TINA model files get updated - at least with regard to those products that under Precision Amplifier's domain.

    Regards, Thomas

    Precision Amplifiers Applications Engineering

  • 0 in reply to Thomas Kuehl
    Guru 47535 points

    Well actually, they have a version they supply for TI where maybe that library can get updated - but I am sure they would prefer a central source for that instead of each group coming in intermittently - 

    But, for outside users like me, I asked if they were updating V11 library and what I got back was we have incorported many updates in our latest V13 or something like that - wanted me to upgrade, but then when I asked some specific model questions - no reply. 

  • 0 in reply to Michael Steffes
    Prodigy 50 points

    Thanks, it does just seem like it's out of date (I think the TINA-TI download ZIP file is many years old). I tinkered a bit and discovered the program freezing up does appear to be a bug in the built-in TINAA browser trying to download a macro per the instruction manual. I downloaded the ZIP file and saved it on my laptop, then using the browser I pointed to the local file instead of the web page and it worked exactly as the manual pictured it would.

    Hopefully if TI does update the program it will include a more complete built-in device library. Downloading a "macro" like this can become confusing in that you have to pick "which" model you want to use (the OPA211 file I downloaded had several model versions to choose from) - then you have to create the right symbol and assign pins. This isn't a huge amount of work, but doing anything like this manually leaves it open to mistakes. A mistake that causes a complete short or wildly implausible simulation result is relatively easy to identify, but if a mistake in the macro only results in slightly wrong responses it can be a nightmare to find.

    It would just be easier and better for the users if the built-in device libraries were more complete.