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LMK04828: LMK04828 distribution mode phase noise

Part Number: LMK04828
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: ADS42JB46EVM, LMK04821, ADS52J65EVM, LMK04832EVM, LMK04832

Hi

We would like to use LMK04828 in distribution mode (both PLL off) where source clock has phase noise <-154dBc/Hz@1kHz.

Is the device able to distribute such clock without a significant phase noise degradation at this offset (atleast to -148dBc/Hz)?

Thanks,

Daniel

  • Hello Daniel,

    It would depend somewhat on the desired frequency, but typically additive jitter wideband would be less than 6 dB.

    For close in at this low noise at 1kHz offset the source is beyond where we would characterize during device validation. Running in distribution mode would definitely provide the lowest additive jitter as there will not be additive PLL/VCO noise.

    Regards,

  • Hi Liam,

    the source clock is 125MHz sinus 7~10dBm with phase noise:

    <-95@10Hz

    <-127@100Hz

    <-156@1kHz

    <-172@10kHz

    <-176@100kHz

    I'm basically interested in close in band 10Hz to 1kHz.

    The LMK04828 is used by you in most of ADc evaluation boards so that's the reason I'm asking about this device.

    Regards,

    Daniel

  • Hello Daniel,

    Currently we don't have data at such low noise offset, however I expect the additive noise would be less than 6 dB when used in distribution mode.

    Regards,

  • Hello Liam,

    I have tried to run several boards with LMK048xx family in distribution mode. Specifically LMK04832EVM, ADS52J65EVM (LMK04821) and ADS42JB46EVM (LMK04828). I'm facing problem with much worse performance than with dual PLL mode

    Increased noise floor above -140dBc and worse close-in noise is observed with phase noise analyzer on LMK04832. ADc data shows also shows increased noise floor and poor SNR performance.

    The clock source has specifications mentioned above - it is basically ultra low phase noise OCXO with sinus output. I tried to convert its output to CMOS (without phase noise degradation) to increase slew rate but without an effect on performance.

    Both PLL and SYSREF circuits are powered down. Divider blocks are bypassed. I tried both bipolar and MOS buffers in FIN input without an impact on performance. I really don't know what is wrong.

    Can you please help me?

    Best regards,

    Daniel

  • Hello Daniel,

    I would expect the noise floor to be better provided the signal source quality is sufficient, closer to -150 dBc.

    CMOS output is not recommended for best noise, LVDS or LV-PECL.

    What is the reference input level provided to the CLKin1/CLKin1* input?

    If you can provide the .tcs file this may help understand better the configuration you have been testing.

    Regards,

  • Hi Liam

    The reference input level should be circa 10dBm@50ohm. The ADS52J65EVM consists 50ohm resistors at CLKIN1 input so Vpp should be 2Vpp (checked with oscilloscope).

    I can't provide .tcs file. Basically I took script for LMK04828 with distribution mode, checked it with datasheet (PD both PLLs, VCOs, inputs...) and modified register sequence to my requirements. I have attached original script.

    Regards,

    Daniel

    LMK04828_config1.cfg

  • Hi Liam,

    do you have any update?

    Thanks,

    Daniel

  • The floor depends on which output format you use, but we do have all the output formats listed in the datasheet

    Attached is a plot with one of the cleanest clean sources we have providing the input and dividing down by factor of 16 to emulate a best case noise floor profile. Based on your source the output should approach this curve beyond 100Hz when in distribution mode.

    Regards,

    cid:image001.png@01D5F246.DB1051D0

  • Hello Liam,

    thank you for the measurement.

    So for optimal distribution mode we have to use high frequency (>1GHz) input and then divide it. Low frequency sources are not usable for this mode.

    Thanks,

    Daniel

  • Hello Daniel,

    It is not necessarily required to divide down a high-frequency input to get good performance. There may be an extra 3dB total which can be divided out of an otherwise high-quality signal at the higher offsets, but it would take a very large divide to realize that improvement so close to the noise floor where the uncorrelated noise improvements asymptotically approach the thermal limits. See below for a comparison of a 30-fs reference (memory trace) vs the LMK04832 LVPECL 2.0V distribution mode with a divide of 1 and duty cycle correction (DCC) enabled, as well as the trace data, showing the noise floor in distribution mode around -160dBc and the 1kHz performance of -148.9dBc/Hz:

    125MHz Source.txt
    Offset (Hz),Phase Noise (dBc/Hz)
    1.0,-67.7779073185
    1.01800975118,-68.2430109713
    1.0363438535,-68.7081141653
    1.05500814844,-69.1732168838
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    29182082.3764,-156.989022854
    29707644.419,-160.150807833
    30242671.7031,-160.029664173
    30787334.6955,-160.498781862
    31341806.9329,-160.48892084
    31906265.0773,-160.175403119
    32480888.9724,-160.527000197
    33065861.7009,-157.914347042
    33661369.6427,-156.590106618
    34267602.5343,-160.023803917
    34884753.5295,-159.368662527
    35513019.2606,-160.388206894
    36152599.9011,-160.490801696
    36803699.2298,-160.191474864
    37466524.6955,-159.111275227
    38141287.4828,-158.298593917
    38828202.5801,-160.16491349
    39527488.8473,-159.013624993
    40000000.0,-160.386525813

    The LMK04828 and the LMK04832 have very similar output structures, so I would expect the performance results for divide of 1 with DCC enabled to be about equivalent. Based on the quality of your source, better than -148dBc/Hz @ 1kHz should be achievable. Double-check that the LMK04828 in your application is configured with divide of 1 and DCC enabled.

    Regards,

  • Hello Derek,

    your measurement is interesting. Can you please provide more info about used source (power, sinus/square)? I was not able achieve such performance with our mentioned clock source (sinus, 2Vpp@50ohm, -156dBc/Hz@1kHz, <-160dBc/Hz floor) with LMK048xx.

    Can you please provide register sequence? I was trying several combinations like bypassing divider, divide-1, DDC without a success

    Thank you.

    Regards,

    Daniel

  • Hello Daniel,

    I used an LMK04832EVM with the existing single-ended CLKin1 input (along with 3dB resistive pad), as per the LMK04832EVM schematics. Input source was a R&S SMA100B, sinusoidal output at 12dBm (so the pin sees ~9dBm). I have attached the TCS file I used below. Procedure was:

    1. Toggle software reset from TICS Pro user controls page
    2. CTRL+L to write all registers

    LMK04832 125MHz LVPECL20 CLKout0.tcs

    Regards,

  • Hi Derek,

    thank you very much. This fixed my problem.

    Regards,

    Daniel