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LMK04821: Trouble syncronizing multiple parts - SYNC_DISSYSREF strange behavior

Part Number: LMK04821

I have a pair of LMK04821EVM eval boards.  I've replaced the VCXO with a 50MHz part on each (p/n CVHD-950X-50.000) and installed the SYNC input SMA connectors.  I'm using a small FPGA eval board to generate some test waveforms - a 100MHz reference clock and a 1PPS signal I'm using to trigger the SYNC input.  My test setup is attached, along with the configuration file I'm loading into both boards.

Both PLLs on both boards are locking and generating 100MHz outputs as expected.  Both 100MHz outputs are in-phase since I have the parts configured in nested zero-delay mode (one goal is to have the 100MHz reference clock outputs in phase across multiple LMK's).

My problem is with the SYSREF outputs. I have the LMK's configured to generate 4 SYSREF pulses when a SYNC input is received.  This is working ok, but the pulses-trains are randomly phased, which I understand to be due to having SYNC_DISSYSREF set.  However, if I clear SYNC_DISSYSREF my SYSREF output becomes a strange burst of pulses shown on the attached plot.  The number of pulses matches SYSREF_PULSE_CNT, but the time between the SYNC input and the start of the pulsetrain moves randomly after each SYNC input.  

I realize there is some electrical noise in this setup - my overall grounding and signal generation isn't the greatest (making due with what I have while working from home :).  But the LMK is in lock, and it seems to be receiving the SYNC input.  

Any idea what's going on?

lmk04821_100mhz_in_dual_loop__sysref_p4.tcs

  • I added terminators to the unused differential outputs and reduced the input reference clock to 10MHz (changed PLL1 CLKin1 divider to 1).  Both PLLs still locking and signals look cleaner now but still getting these strange bursts on the SYSREF output when disabling SYNC_DISSYSREF.

  • Hi Jay,

    SYNC (a.k.a. divider reset) and SYSREF share a path in the LMK0482x. Think of SYNC_DISSYSREF as an AND-gate signal between the shared SYNC/SYSREF distribution path and the SYSREF divider reset line. So when you disable SYNC_DISSYSREF, you're enabling the path to the SYSREF divider reset. If you don't also arrange for the SYNC signal to be the common reset between the dividers, the SYSREF pulser will be sent out over the shared SYNC/SYSREF distribution path instead, and the SYSREF pulser will be its own reset signal. Basically, you're SYNCing yourself in the foot.

    One thing to note about zero-delay mode is that, unless the phase detector of the ZDM PLL is equal to the greatest common divisor GCD(input frequencies, output frequencies), there could potentially be many more phases for lower-frequency clocks. In your tcs file, I see the SYSREF is 9.375 MHz, whereas the phase detector is 10 MHz. Since there's a beat frequency between 9.375 MHz and 10 MHz, there's least common multiple LCM(9.375, 10) / MIN(9.375, 10) = 150 / 9.375 = 16 different possible phase alignments for the SYSREF dividers against the 10 MHz reference, and LCM(9.375, 100) / MIN(9.375, 100) = 300 / 9.375 = 32 different possible phase alignments for the SYSREF dividers against the 100 MHz reference.

    If you want to ensure the SYSREF dividers are also aligned without needing to issue a SYNC event, your ZDM phase detector rate must be GCD(100 MHz, 10 MHz, 9.375 MHz) = 625 kHz, or some integer divide of 625 kHz. Otherwise you will need to use a SYNC event to tell the SYSREF dividers when to start counting.

    For more information about synchronizing multiple LMK0482x devices, please see the Multi-SYNC app note and accompanying graphical presentation: 

    Regards,

  • Derek,

    Thanks for the quick reply.  Can you elaborate on your comment "Otherwise you will need to use a SYNC event to tell the SYSREF dividers when to start counting"?  I thought the edge on the SYNC input WAS the 'SYNC event' that would reset the SYSREF counters and line up my SYSREFs.

    Which internal clock is the SYNC input synchronized to?

    Is there a way to synchronize the SYSREFs of multiple converters using an external sync signal that has no special relationship to the internal phase detector?

    Thanks,

    Jay

      

  • Derek,

    Still waiting for your reply on this.  I've looked through the documents you sent but I still don't understand if it's possible to do what I want.  Can you reply to my follow-up questions in the thread?

    Thanks,

    Jay

  • Many thanks to Ajeet Pal for getting me straightened out on this - the key parts of his response are copied below.  I was missing the configuration in step 1 that allows the SYNC input to reset the SYSREF divider.   This allows synchronously resetting the dividers on multiple LMKs, after which configuration can be changed to step 3 for pulsed SYSREF (or to continuous mode) and the SYSREFs all stay in phase.

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    1.       In your config file, first set SYNC path for SYSREF divider reset with disabling the SYNC_DISSYSREF (shown below) in both boards

     Image preview

    2.       After giving the SYNC event, it should reset the SYSREF divider

    3.       Now, enable the SYNC_DISSYSREF and change the SYNC path for pulsed SYSREF generation

    Image preview

    4.       This setup should provide the synchronized SYSREF from multiple LMKs.