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AFE5832: DTGC atten/LNA combination

Part Number: AFE5832

Hello,

I am using the AFE5832 and trying to understand how to the time gain control works with the up/down ramp.

 

My general question is, how does the engine decide the combination of attenuation and AFE gain to achieve the specified start gain / stop gain and in between?

For example if the start gain is 30dB, is the attenuator gain set to -8 and the AFE gain to 38? Or -4 + 34? Or 0 + 30? How is this specified?

Thank you!

Bertrand

  • Hi Bertrand, 

    By default, in all the TGC modes, attenuator steps are exhausted first and then LNA steps are executed. 

    In the up/down ramp mode, there are 160 steps. So, the first 8dB steps indicate attenuator gain (ie. 0 to 31 steps in Start_gain or Stop_gain). If both Start_gain and Stop_gain are above 31, then attenuator is always in 0-dB attenuation mode. 

    Thanks,

    Karthik

  • Hi Karthik,

    Thank you for the quick answer.

    Is there any way at all to keep the LNA gain constant and high (for example 30dB), and have the DTGC done with just the attenuator?

    Thanks again!

    Bertrand

  • Hi Bertrand, 

    I don't think that is possible with the datasheet modes we have. 

    Does your system care where the gain is coming from - attenuator or LNA? Can you explain? 

    Thanks, 

    Karthik

  • Hi Karthik,

    I am thinking - perhaps incorrectly - that there could be a tradeoff from a noise perspective? That being said I would indeed expect no attenuation for the stop gain. It wasn't obvious to me that it could also be the case for the start gain.

    On a related question, your answer also implied that it is not possible to leave the attenuator engaged all the time while the DTGC is done by the LNA? I am asking because the attenuator brings a load resistance on the input, which is of interest for us.

    Thanks again!

    Bertrand

  • Hi Bertrand, 

    Can you elaborate on the noise tradeoff that you are mentioning. What is your application and how does attenuation from LNA/attenuator affect you? 

    There is indeed a noise-gain tradeoff which is highlighted in Figure 9 (Input-Referred Noise vs Gain Code). In Ultrasound/NDT applications, lower gain is applied when examining objects closer to transducer (or near-field). But near-field regions also emit higher echoes. So, a higher noise in the lower gains is acceptable. 

    Stop gain and Start gain can both be anywhere from 0 to 159. Which means attenuation can be engaged with them.

    Example 1, Start gain = 10, Stop gain = 20. Only attenuator gain is changing in this sequence. And, total gain will change from 8.5dB to 11dB (High power mode) as per Figure 2 in datasheet. 

    Example 2, Start gain = 40 , Stop gain = 140. Only LNA gain is changing in this sequence. Attenuator gain = 0. 

    By engaged, do you want to keep the attenuator fixed at fixed attenuation such as attenuator-gain -> -4dB, LNA-gain -> changes from say 20-dB to 40-dB? This is possible by using FIX_ATTEN_x = 1, ATTENUATION_x = 32. 

    Thanks,

    Karthik

  • Hi Karthik,

    Regarding the noise tradeoff, I was actually curious what figure 11. would look like for different combinations of attenuator and LNA gains (for the same effective gain). That being said, I think that the portion with gain < 64 tells me what I wanted to know, which is that keeping the attenuator engaged does not bring benefits from a noise perspective.

    Thank you for the fixed attenuation suggestion. If FIX_ATTEN_x = 1, only the LNA gain varies during DTGC then?

    Thanks!

    Bertrand

  • Hi Bertrand, 

    Yes, when FIX_ATTEN = 1, only the LNA gain varies and attenuator gain will be fixed. 

    Like I mentioned in the previous message, arbitrary combinations of LNA and attenuator gain for a given channel-gain is not supported. 

    Thanks,

    Karthik