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MSP430F2272-Q1: spice model

Viktorija Cecil
Genius 17961 points
Part Number: MSP430F2272-Q1
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: MSP430F2272,

Team, 

It seems MSP430F2273-Q1 link to spice model on ti.com is incorrect, as it loads a 6pin opamp: 

http://www.ti.com/product/MSP430F2272-Q1/toolssoftware#model

Can you please direct me where I can find one for MSP430F2273-Q1?

Thanks

Viktorija

  • 0
    TI__Guru*** 128095 points

    Hello Viktorija,

    That is a very strange issue. I need to check with some other individuals about this - give me a couple business days to figure out what happened there.

  • 0
    TI__Guru*** 128095 points

    Hello Viktorija,

    Well I learned quite a few things I wasn't aware of before.

    First of all, we don’t provide full SPICE models for MSP430 devices.

    Secondly, the SPICE model for this device was probably done in the past by someone as an analog equivalent of only the Op-Amp portion.

    There have been cases of standalone portions getting SPICE models so that would explain the offered model on the product page. So it would not be an error that it is only for Op-Amp.

    I think this addresses your question, let me know if you have any others on this topic.

  • 0 in reply to Ralph Jacobi
    TI__Genius 17961 points

    Hi Ralph, from customer:

    Thanks for the feedback. Can they at least provide some guidance on the op-amp set-up, especially on each pinout, expected outputs and clarify what can be simulated? For instance can I run transients, DC sweep, thermal analysis?

    I’m running into all sorts of errors trying to figure out how this op-amp is to be configured in PSpice. For instance, when I run transient analysis of the below PSpice schematic, I’m getting convergence errors. When I remove auto-converge, I get an  “internal divide by zero error”. 

    Thanks

    Viktorija

  • 0 in reply to Viktorija Cecil
    TI__Guru*** 128095 points

    Hello Viktorija,

    Unfortunately we do not know who within TI even made and published this SPICE model. It may have been an automotive team, or someone in MSP430 who is no longer around. This is a situation where it is provided 'as is' on the site and we are not in position to help support the contents of the model.

    If the customer believes the model is incorrect, then I'll probably just see about getting it removed entirely.

  • 0 in reply to Ralph Jacobi
    TI__Genius 17961 points

    Ralph, my customer is now able to simulate the MSP430. But he doesn't have the electrical characteristics of the MSP430 op amp to verify his findings. Kindly assist with the following:

    1. MSP430 Op amp Gain-Bandwidth Product
    2. MSP430 Op amp Open-Loop Gain
    3. MSP430 Op amp Phase Margin
    4. MSP430 Op amp Slew Rate
    5. MSP430 Op amp Input Offset Voltage
    6. MSP430 Op amp Common-Mode Rejection Ratio
    7. MSP430 Op amp Power Supply Rejection Ratio

     These parameters are typically specified in the datasheet, but are missing in the MSP430F2272 spec.

    Thanks

    Viktorija

  • 0 in reply to Viktorija Cecil
    Guru 117850 points

    Staff/I are 'outsiders' - yet on occasion - have enjoyed 'success' under such 'data unavailable' conditions.

    May we suggest:

    • You note 'parameters missing' for your chosen device.  Might 'highly similar' devices (include) those parameters?   (often elements of one design are used (copied) repeatedly - are they not?)
    • It must be asked - as this issue has been promoted to high importance - why was this device (lacking these specs) even chosen?   
    • Under such conditions - unless the projected volume is 'extremely high' - use of a 'Known & Properly Specified (external) Op-Amp' - merits consideration.
    • And ... under the proper conditions - & w/the investment of time & well-skilled 'Engineering Resources' - it (may) be possible to 'Tease Out' (much) of your requested (internal Op-Amp data) via (highly) controlled experimentation...

    Should it be noted that most always - such 'Mixed Signal Devices' - cannot equal the performance of 'Task Dedicated Devices?'     The drive to, 'Do Everything via one chip' - does not always - 'Ring w/Success!'

  • 0 in reply to Viktorija Cecil
    TI__Guru*** 128095 points

    Hello Viktorija,

    Looking at the MSP430F2272 Datasheet (not the Q1 version) it seems there is no Op Amp for those parts.

    The D/S says "Operational Amplifier (OA) (MSP430F22x4 only)"

    So I think the SPICE model wouldn't apply for their device. I don't see an Op Amp in the MSP430F2272-Q1 datasheet at all.