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problem in delivering the motor speed to speedref

Other Parts Discussed in Thread: TMDSHVMTRINSPIN

hi,

i designed and make a pcb based on a hvkit_rev1p1(with a few differences) but with F28027 MCU, for driving a 0.75hp ACIM, 220v, 3 phase motor and i am using a CCS6.1 and motorware15.

the max speed of the motor is 1.5krpm. the motor receive to this speed when rotating in NO Load state. but when the load apply to motor, the speed decrease (to about 1.1krpm) and doesn't go to max speed. in the other word, i am driving the motor with maximum 65% efficiency but i expected to receive to 80%.

i tried this experiment with dynamo-meter and can't reach to 2.5Nm in torque. i tried to solve this problem but i can't.

also i tired to increase the MAX_CURRENT to catch more speed but i can't.

where is the problem? is this natural or not?

is there anyone to help me to solve this problem and reach to desire speed with Load?

this is my user.h file:

5824.user.h

  • which lab are you using? you may want to try proj_lab10 which uses over-modulation to achieve more average voltage to the motor for higher speeds.

    if that doesn't do the trick I would look at your MAGNETIZING_CURRENT that was identified. It is likely too high. Try lowering it in steps to see if you can achieve the speeds with load.

  • i am using proj_lab5b.
    this MAGNETIZING_CURRENT(0.9) is not the one that achieved in identifying section. the identified one was 1.85 and i reduced it to 0.9.
    is there any other parameter that i can changed it to get a better result?
    when i saw the datasheets, i has been read that MAX_CURRENT set the max speed limitation in PI controller. can i increase the MAX_CURRENT to get a more speed?
  • "can i increase the MAX_CURRENT to get a more speed?"

    that depends on if that is what is limiting the torque command to the motor. you would need to see if the IqRef_A is saturating to this limit. If so yes, you can increase assuming the power stage and motor can handle.

    you should also consider proj_lab10 which increases the power to the motor by increasing the voltage instead of the current.

    thirdly would be further adjusting the magnetizing current.
  • is it possible that this problem is caused by another parameter, ex: wrong Ls_d, Ls_q or bad identification?
  • yes, it could be, especially with an induction motor which is harder to ID correctly.
    could also be an issue with your HW. Did you compare ID results with your HW and the TI EVM?
    Did you try doing a loaded test with the TI EVM?

    but I'd still look first at the items I mentioned previously.
  • hi,

    i tested what you have said.

    1- i ran the proj_lab10a and changed the over_modulation parameter. the default value was 0.66666 and i set it to 1.0 and 0.333. Noting useful happened.

    2- i change the MAGNETIZING_CURRENT but the responses became worst. i have said before, this value(0.9) is not the one from identification process. i found it. the one extracted from ID process was 1.85.

    3- changing the MAX_CURRENT parameter has made no change to speed.

    4- you have said : "Did you try doing a loaded test with the TI EVM?".
    i don't know the TI EVM, do you mean hvkit_rev1p1 with F28069 Control card? if yes, i used it for ID process and the motor parameter in user.h is came from that ID process.

    5-finally, the something bad happened. i tried to identify the motor with hvkit_rev1p1 again through the proj_lab2c but the identification process has failed in EST_idrated by stopping the motor. also this happened to my designed board.

    i am confused . unfortunately i have no more time and don't know what to do.
    please help me. SOS.
  • hi,

    in addition to works that i mentioned before, i used to function in est.h:

    EST_getFm(obj->estHandle);  and EST_getFe(obj->estHandle);.

    there is diffrence between this two parameter. is this make a sense? is this because of bad identification or it is normal?

    waiting for your answer. thank you

  • correction

    for PMSM: Fm = Fe

    For ACIM: Fm = Fe – Fslip

  • this equation is correct in my tests: ACIM: Fm = Fe – Fslip

    is it mean that my motor spin correctly?

    the motor speed drop-down from speed_ref in upper speed with load. why? how can i fix it?

    is this because of bad identification?

  • 1 - in proj_lab10a the default of 0.6666 is the maximum. You should see the gMotorVars.Vs go to this limit during high speed operation. If this is saturating then you at least know you are using all of your available voltage / duty cycle.

    2 - ok. there is an optimum point for this magnetizing current. Too little and you don't produce enough torque. Too large and the flux limits your speed.

    3 - changing max current changes the limit of the output of the speed controller, which is the input to the IqRef_A torque signal

    4 - yes TMDSHVMTRINSPIN kit. It would be good to know if the issue is just on your HW or not. Did you test full speed with load operation?


    also, are you sure your motor can reach the rated speed with the load you are applying? it's often difficult to know exactly what is being specified by the motor manufacturer for a given line voltage.
  • yes, i'm sure that the motor can reach to that speed rate with applied load,
  • hi, i have a problem in using proj_lab10a.
    there is a problem in running motor in full load with 1.5krpm for speed_ref. the real speed(checked with tachometer) is below this value(about 1.48krpm) but the estimated speed in debug mode(speed_krpm) is 1.5krpm(wrong number).
    i tested the motor in proj_lab10a and watch gMotorVars.Vs while over_modulation parameter is 0.666666.
    it never go above the 0.52 and never reach to 0.66666.
    is this because of ad estimation? is this normal for gMotorVars.Vs to never reach to over_modulation value?
  • Vs is not going over 0.52 because the estimated speed matches the reference speed. to the control system, all is well.

    If the estimated speed is incorrect, yes, it is likely due to motor parameters being incorrect.

    Since the estimated and tach are so close, I would say this is just a matter of the Rr value being slightly off.
  • you mean that i change the Rr slightly up and down to find the better answer?
  • that should enable speed_est to match your tach, yes