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Feedback on EK-TM4C129 Expanded Memory Option Booster Pack

Other Parts Discussed in Thread: EK-TM4C1294XL

Hello All,

We are planning to do an extender to the EK-TM4C129 with added NOR Flash+SRAM (external) v/s External SDRAM+Serial Flash. The performance would be lesser than the internal Flash but the code foot print could be potentially expanded,

I do want this to run through the forum to see whether it will be a good add on to the EK-TM4C129 portfolio of booster packs. Do let me know your thoughts if the extender board should be External SDRAM+Serial Flash or External Flash+External SRAM...

Regards

Amit

  • Hi Amit,

    Our small group much likes your request for, "forum comment/input" regarding the creation of memory-based, "add-on" boards.  I've not had proper time nor made sufficient effort to respond as your request deserves.

    That said - a comparison chart - listing the key features, functions, performance (transfer size/speed), size (of the add on board(s), connection overhead (of each) & board/component price implications seems worthwhile.

    Long past - we produced two separate, "display/keypad" accessory boards - so that clients could actually evaluate, "live!" 

    Sometimes such - "hands-on" works best - harvests superior client/user feedback.   Most (all) real-world user issues (hard to fully anticipate on spec sheet) dawn far clearer/faster - when "real boards" may be operated & test/verified...

    To the forum: Not all forums "invite" user feedback.  Here's our chance (one hopes) to impact the design & implementation of added features - valued by many here...  All comments are invited...  (and thank you, Amit...)

  • Hi Amit,

    Your suggestions are quite interesting, but I think they are heavily dependent on real application and it will be hard to decide what option should be adopted (price and components). Maybe the best thing would be to make prototypes for both versions and just publish them as reference designs as the users to see it first and suggest eventually new features/improvements. If the users will request a version more than the other then you will know what to be sent into production (or maybe both).

    Thanks, and best regards,

    Petrei

  • Well, SRAM is the most expensive one right? And consumes less power than SDRAM and it's faster if i remember correctly.

    Well, i think power would not be the biggest factor in most applications that need a ton of ram, at least the difference betwen SDRAM and SRAM would not be significant. Now speed. Most Tivas alredy have a considerate amount of internal SRAM that could be very well be used as a cache if SDRAM was used, just my opinion. I think the SRAM vs SDRAM would only have a significant benefit with applications that use DMA (of course without DMA SRAM is still faster), well the DMA already takes off time from the processor access to memory. Since most DMA transfers are requested by modules like the UART, SPI and i2c (among others) and other peripherals which operation to send data or receive takes time, there's time to make a transfer from the slower SDRAM to the faster SRAM (getting important data in the faster RAM for when it's needed).

    Basically i think that the more expensive SRAM is not necessary for most applications with the Tiva. Just my opinion. You can see other ARMs boars with expanded memory like the stm32f4 disco board has SDRAM istead of SRAM. Is it really needed a really big and fast ram on a MCU that it makes it worth using the more expensive one?

    About the flash i don't really have an opinion

  • From my point of view, our main issue is by far the amount of SRAM included on the chips. In our applicattions we need to store and compute many long arrays of float data which comes from ADCs or SPIs via uDMA, then apply them quite a powerful digital signal processing (which translates into more RAM space).

    We need to perform those operations in less than a few milliseconds, so speed is an issue and due to the low RAM available, we cannot store data and we need to drop very interesting data we can map with other devices (full DSPs).

    Some Megabytes of SRAM (+ some of Flash) could expand the range of applicattions for the Tiva family (I am thinking in 3D scanners, radar, temperature and more high-end sensor ones).

    The idea after this is to get the data (like 30 seconds or more), store it and send it asynchronously when connection is available.

    Regards

  • Amit Ashara said:

    Hello All,

    We are planning to do an extender to the EK-TM4C129 with added NOR Flash+SRAM (external) v/s External SDRAM+Serial Flash. The performance would be lesser than the internal Flash but the code foot print could be potentially expanded,

    I do want this to run through the forum to see whether it will be a good add on to the EK-TM4C129 portfolio of booster packs. Do let me know your thoughts if the extender board should be External SDRAM+Serial Flash or External Flash+External SRAM...

    Regards

    Amit

     

    Amit, first, I find it a good idea, recently I was looking for a boosterpack with external SDRAM, but could not find any, although a NOR Flash does exist if I remember correctly.

     

    Secondly, I guess you do mean the EK-TM4C1294XL Connected LaunchPad, not the DK-TM4C129X?

     

    If it’s for the first, then it will be placed on the X11 connector, not the BoosterPack connectors because they don’t have (all the)EPI port pins, right?

     

    I would rather have SDRAM than SRAM, using SRAM you’re limited to max 64-72 Mbit, as bigger does not exist and it is also more expensive. Speed is not the problem, most SDRAM’s are as fast as or even faster than SRAM (although, there’s not the overhead of refreshing, but still).

     

    NOR Flash versus Serial Flash (I guess it’s parallel versus serial), I don’t know, I would just have the footprint for both, and only populate one of the two(could do the same for the SRAM/SDRAM).

     

    My reason for the SDRAM is to use it for one or more pages of display memory(800x480x16bit), and also for data logging.

  • Indeed!! would like to see 512Meg+ or higher ( sdram obviously)

    + recently have been working with fpga to do just that ....

    mainly for Data logging /buffering for writing to SDcards 

  • hi Amit,
    I think an excellent idea! Do not forget the final cost for interface with this option. But yes, I think a great idea and very useful.

    Regards

    Aquino

  • Hi Amit, I see feedback was not so much, about this board I think flexibility need be a premium, so all of expansion has to be provided to cover every case:
    Selectable multichip solution can not be easy due to intermix of different interfacing pin so I prospect a single PCB customizable by user where all 3 types of chip reside.
    Another way can be to interpose an FPGA as I am doing so this can handle every configuration of EPI to other chip acting as simple bridge or EPI controller accessing an SDRAM controller plus flash and other IP core stuff can reside in the FPGA shared by EPI.
    About SDRAM and SRAM (possibly battery backed) and flash try advance some proposal we can check over.
    About FPGA I am inclined to Altera, not just big Cyclone than MAX V/10 series ( or overkill of both MAX V + Cyclone) it is bigger enough to evaluate very complex interfaces.
    This way add on cannot cost less than Launchpad, it can be a system itself... High speed intrinsic need to properly design pcb to compensate propagation delay to external connector too.
  • Hello Roberto, All,

    Thanks for all your feedbacks and indeed the key would be the flexibility of the interface. We have commenced work on the board and support software for the same. It would be a PnP board where the extender packs would be interchangeable. With regards to the FPGA there is not a full development consensus but the connectors would be interchangeable with the memory cards so it can work with extension capability. More to come soon...

    Regards
    Amit
  • Hi Amit,

    When this board would be available? Have you decided to go for SDRAM + Serial Flash? We need this option as soon as possible.

    Appreciate your support.

    Regards,

    Vh

  • Hello Vh,

    The memory extender packs are expected to be available with gerber and example codes by end of Jan'2015. For the forum to be aware as well, layout and software development on pre-proto boards have been completed and we are moving to the first proto boards soon.

    Since you have mentioned SDRAM + Serial Flash, what feature are you expecting out of the same since it will help us strengthen the example code offering as well.

    Regards
    Amit
  • Hi Amit, I see somewhere a voting panel, so this uneven new forum interface present just one benefit, can we add voting to select feature? I can suggest entry: SDRAM, Size, FLASH, Size, FPGA XILINX ALTERA Size from MAX or CYCLONE and XILINX Virtex VS xxx
  • We note this thread has escaped it's (past) sticky status - unless pinged regularly - will rotate off front page into forum oblivion...

    Suggest the "Chicago way" of voting - "Vote early and often!" (assumes you can "find" stick-free, (mobile) forum voting booth...)

  • Hi Amit,

    End January is good timing. Can I pre-order few of these boards. I believe this board can be connected to DK-TM4C129X as well. Please check me here and help to confirm. We have already chosen this processor for our design. Schematic completed and I have provided a 16MByte SDRAM. Design is progressing (in the pre-layout stage) and Graphical User Interface software being developed on the eval board. We indeed need the adaptor board with extended memory. Certainly we need external SDRAM to support larger display size or resolutions for color display of QVGA (320x240), VGA(640x480). This is a key feature of our instrument. 16MByte to 32MByte of SDRAM is good for our application. Anything more such as 64MByte would be plenty. Not sure whether is doable. Currently my team is using two DK-TM4C129X eval boards. Waiting for the actual board ( will take some time) or want to use extended memory adaptor card, if one is available. SPI based serial flash is already on the DK-TM4C129X. Therefore, if we have additional memory on the memory adaptor board it would be handy to experiment to store additional data/images or would help to store the program. Haven't define the requirement for the serial flash size. Always bigger would be better as when it works the smaller size would always work.

    Looking forward to order or pre-order the memory adaptor board.

    Regards,
    Vh
  • Hello Vh,

    This board is meant for the EK-TM4C129 launchpad and not for the DK-TM4C129 evaluation board. Due to the difference in the header layout of the DK-TM4C129 it would not mate with the same.. However we plan to have provision for the header pins on the extender pack so you may be able to mate the LCD header.

    Hello All,

    Thanks for pointing out the lost sticky status and the poll. Added the same as well now.

    Regards

    Amit

  •  Hi Amit,

    Option is not present so I wish vote none of these. Also this mode radio button exclude both DK and EK SDRAM, On Dk a flash is present but I never used nor I plan to use due all setting are in a removable SD and I wish have there to move/copy/backup machine setting simply. EK Has no LCD and large ram is a special feature, again I plan to use LCD controller on IP Core and this reqire EPI connected to FPGA also as SDRAM too has to be connected to fpga for arbitration and dual access contention.
    To vote this arrangement I wish have more button, naming 1 2 3 I wish express both 1 2. On another way SPI flash is useless, on DK SD socket is present as flash is and a duplicate is of no great help, on EK nor flash nor SD socket, on adapter can be the solution better fit both.. so some more option need to this voting. This poor voting has just radio button or also check boxes?

  • Hello Roberto,

    The FPGA solution was not considered for the first round of extender packs and I am not sure if I will be able to get a 2nd round of boards done (out of spare time definitely). May be have a DK and EK solution is something I need to see.

    Regards
    Amit
  • Hi Amit,

    Does this imply, I can still connect the extended memory to DK-TM4C129 evaluation board via the LCD header?

    The extended memory adaptor card will meet our purpose as long as we can jumper wire the memory interface connections to the DK-TM4C129 evaluation board to achieve the external SDRAM memory.

    I hope this is doable. Please help to confirm.

    Regards,

    Vh

  • Hello Vahesan,

    Can we take the conversation offline. I have sent a Message Request.

    Regards
    Amit
  • Amit Ashara said:
    Can we take the conversation offline.

    Uh Oh! 

    First a "locked/sticky" posting arrives - inviting user comment.  Not too many note nor choose to respond.

    Then we are (offline) requested to publicly respond - and many do.

    And today - we return to (secret) conversations!   Can this be good?

    Being dragged into "specific use cases" should have been anticipated - and safe-guarded. 

    Now - as one is "specially handled" - should not we all expect (and receive) such (private and special) treatment?  An (improperly) planned path includes many twists...

  • Amit Ashara said:
    The FPGA solution was not considered for the first round of extender packs and I am not sure if I will be able to get a 2nd round of boards done (out of spare time definitely). May be have a DK and EK solution is something I need to see.

     Hi Amit, IMHO I don't need a duplicate so FPGA is secondary to my need, I have my board ready with MAX V EPI connected, SRAM and a lot of spare pin and connector to use as development kit too.

     Question was different:

    **************************            D K TM4C129  *********************************

     ---->>>> Expensive develpment board need complection to be used, Elektronica TIVA board perform better as closed development tools related to LCD due it is more complete.

     DK-TM has both SPI FLASH and SD socket on board so these are duplicate and useless too. I think SDRAM and or SRAM are priority to that board

      again ON DK some sort of FPGA to EPI to enable dual port ram can be useful to use both LCD access and peripheral intermixed. This was my first idea but I preferred not to use due to microBGA package.

     Another thing I can wish is an offer of controllerless compatible LCD instead of SD1229 based one and this jointed to more RAM is a good twin. (Elektronica has)

     ALL THIS NEED BE voted separate from EK board voting

    ****************************  EK TM4c1294XL ****************************************

     Very low cost Launchpad series:

     EK-TM: doesnt have Flash nor SD socket, so

    I can suggest add both SD socket and SPI flash in first then

         SRAM vs SDRAM  this board has primary target IOT so not much ram is needed and SRAM is enough for a lot of application. Why try what is of A9 A11 arena from a simple CORTEX M4?

    Maybe both can be of help SDRAM and SRAM but how to choose and not raise price?

    Voting pane require a lot of option without check boxes.

    Again this has to be separate from DK board voting  too

    **********************************************************************************************

    FPGA on EK board has no general purpose sense and wiring to a simple Terasic DE0 NANO can be the simplest solution I adopted. This way a dual access of SDRAM from both LCD controller (on FPGA) and other IP core plus EPI is still possible as a fast mailbox. Not many use this complex environment and available devkit are of simple matching too.

  • Hello cb1,

    I made the request in the better interest to keep the thread as lean as possible to the original post. However clearly I had not safe guarded it to available options (as in the past Roberto had requested for the FPGA option too) and neither did intend to do so to keep a good stream of ideas that could bolster the extender pack offering over a period of time.

    Anyways, all said and done, apologies if you (and possibly others on the thread) think that it was inappropriate.

    Regards
    Amit
  • Hi Amit,

    Having been @ this forum dating to LMI beginnings - our group has some (vested) interest in seeing the forum maintain it's (reasonably) OPEN nature - as that benefits all here.  When instead - forum dissolves into "private conversations" - how is the "greater good" served?

    Do not such "private conversations" eat your time/energy & other forum-based responsibilities?   And - if these conversations have "value" - should they not be shared - for the benefit of many?

    In this particular case - you "invited" forum participation - and indeed many "regulars" here responded.  Now - to switch to "secret" conversations - seems contrary to the long standing, "Open Forum Principle!"  You've embarked on this specific project as it (clearly) meets the needs of many - why then (suddenly) reward only a (chosen few) with (we assume) critical, "insider information?" 

    Seems misguided - not well planned - and costly to you in the long run...  (and distasteful to those who "answered your call" - unlike the (rewarded/secret) recently arrived poster...)

  • Hello Roberto,

    So as I understand it, the options stand as

    DK Voting Panel (in order of the preference you have set)
    1. SDRAM
    2. SRAM + Parallel Flash (The dual chip is part of the packaged offering)
    3. Controller-less LCD Panel (specify an example so that I can research into the offering from different vendors)

    EK Voting Panel (in order of your preference)
    1. SD Card Socket + SPI Flash
    3. SDRAM
    3. SRAM + Parallel Flash (The dual chip is part of the packaged offering)

    Regards
    Amit
  • Hello cb1

    Not really. When there is a specific thread on the option, I would prefer to take it offline (have done this in the forum when it came to the non-recognition of the LaunchPad on some Windows Machine and coming back with a summation).

    For the forum's update: The summary of the offline discussion was requirement assessment, which cannot be done in the time frame and clarification on the initial compatibility to the DK-TM4C129 (the costlier and less tangible on a/c of pre fixed LCD and limited EPI access option of the EK and DK for TM4C129).

    Unless the majority of the forum makes a switch to DK-TM4C129, we would need to take the step back and do a fresh approach to the solution.

    Regards
    Amit
  • Amit Ashara said:
    have done this in the forum when it came to the non-recognition of the LaunchPad on some Windows Machine and coming back with a summation).

    We must agree (then) to disagree.   We note that you've not answered our (multiple) concerns.  (Reward the few - at the expense of the many...)  Never good.

    As to the quote - should that be directed to me - there is NO, "widespread benefit to others as LX4F is no longer (easily) available in bulk."   Thus that issue likely does not deserve forum handling - and involved a less popular IDE - too.

    Sad day when "secret conversations & guidance" trump normal, public forum information exchanges.  It may prove unwise to honor each/every "specific thread request" - especially those emanating from "brand new" forum participants - with no (firm) EAU commitment to justify your time/efforts...

  •  

    Amit Ashara said:
    DK Voting Panel (in order of the preference you have set)
    1. SDRAM
    2. SRAM + Parallel Flash (The dual chip is part of the packaged offering)
    3. Controller-less LCD Panel (specify an example so that I can research into the offering from different vendors)

     Amit, I vote in public so other can contribute:

     DK board

     SRAM SDRAM (and Parallel Flash too ) can be the best solution, otherwise this is not feasible without an FPGA supporting for and EPI board on DK must be small due to connector and position, an alternate good solution to that board can be complete it with two:

     Board type 1 SDRAM only

     Board type 2 Chip selector SRAM + Parallel FLash

     About LCD connector is in place for actual one and it is controller oriented so an adaptor with supporting PCB need to be prepared, I suppose offering Elektronica or a different DK is more simple than apply patch to a so expensive board.

     IMHO another DK with preinstalled 5" and more than one adapter to RGB TFT can best suit developer, on this way due to low cost of some multiple TFT can be on the box like 2" size 320x200 3.5" same res or different and a large 5" and 7" as optional. again IMHO my best fit of that processor can be on small panel display and best solution can be in range 2-3" but again that class i wish develop don't need Ethernet nor other feature where in this full populated chip still is missing I2S was a must for VOIP and is simple with a small FPGA...

     It is not possible to have all we need old LM3S96 was perfect, TIVA just need some more refinement.

    [My selected TFT was TIAMNA 5" 480*272 but this is relative to my need for old compatibility] what is standard to market is 800*480 and on VOIP I can also use this.

    --------------------------------------------- Different cost and target EK ----------------------------

     EK board:

     Choice 1 carry no interference on EPI so it can added painless

     1  SD Card + SPI Flash (it can be separate offer on boosterpack too)

     AND/OR

    again as for DK EPI interfere on mode, SDRAM exclude SRAM and parallel flash too so Exclusive offer can carry painless offer 1 then MUST choice from between or 2 or 3 not both:
     

    2 SDRAM

     EXOR

    3 SRAM + Parallel Flash

  • Hello All,

    Been time since the last update. The final design, software and application note are now being done. Hopefully we will be in test phase soon.

    There would be three boards
    1. DK-TM4C129:X SDRAM Only
    2. EK-TM4C1294: SDRAM + Serial Flash + uSD Card Slot
    3. EK-TM4C1294: SRAM + NOR Flash (Both parallel)

    Example Code would be
    1. External Flash Boot Loader
    2. SDRAM Performance Tests for both boards
    3. Serial Flash, SRAM and NOR Flash Performance Tests for EK-TM4C1294 boards

    Orderable status will be made based on the requirements raised on TI website and/or E2E Forum.

    Regards,
    Amit
  • Hi Amit,

    Any info available about the capacities? How much SDRAM and Flash?
  • Hello Luis

    SDRAM would be 512Mbit and Flash is 256Mbit due to byte addressable SRAM. If the byte addressable is not to be required then it can go upto 1Gbit.

    Regards
    Amit
  • Amit,

      Is the serial flash quad spi? 

      Would be nice an example code for the use of the serial flash as webserver file storage.

      When these boards will be available?

      Ari.

      

     

  • Hello Ari,

    Yes, it would be serial flash with Quad SPI. Indeed it would be with example code (fatfs is what we are trying to build on top of it). As of now we expect the ref designs to be out in end of Jan to Feb time frame. These will not be orderables, but the design files will be made available.

    Regards
    Amit
  • Amit,

         The reference designs for qspi flash board with fatfs would be available up to the end of this month?

         Can you tell me what part number was chosen for the quad spi flash?

         Ari.

     

  • Hello Ari

    It is Macronix Flash MX66L51235FZ2I-10G (same as on the DK-TM4C129X)

    Regards
    Amit
  •  Hi Amit, finally I choosed to vote for SPI quad flash, SD card was just the cost of a socket but thinking what is more simple to add.

     If not final try also add SD socket in parallel to SPI flash?

     About DK I stopped use that processor, bga is too fine pitch and pcb cost too much, in case of soldering failure is too hard to rework. A bigger BGA or TQFP can be more appreciated.

  • Hello Roberto,

    The boards are being assembled, so all the suggestions made till now will be there.... Keep my fingers crossed for the bring-up.

    Regards
    Amit
  • Amit,

       When the quad spi board hardware reference design and firmware should be released?

       

     Ari.

  • Hello Ari,

    All boards except Quad SPI is tested (scheduled today). It would take 2-3 week for documentation-review and then be released. Is there something specific from HW or Firmware that you are looking for?

    Regards
    Amit
  • Amit,
    I want to change the "enet_io" example to use a qspi flash for web files storage instead of the TM4C129x internal flash.
    Ari.
  • Hello Ari,

    OK, I get it now. Sure you can do that, however the example code being released for the Quad Flash would not have a File System, so the storage of the data and its retrieval would be based on how you want it to be implemented. The code being released would have Quad SPI Flash Erase-Program-Routine.

    Regards
    Amit
  • Amit,

     Will the Expanded Memory Booster Packs be available to sell on the TI store? And when the documentation and firmware will be available?

     Ari.

  • Hello Ari

    The packs will not be orderables but entire manufacturing data: Gerbers and BOM will be available.

    Regards
    Amit
  • Hello Ari,

    I am doing the documentation and packaging the files and would take 2-3 weeks to come online with reviews done.

    Regards
    Amit
  • Amit,

     Can you post the QSPI flash firmware here?

     Regards

     Ari

  • Amit,

     Do you think that the packaging files will be online this week?

    Ari.

  • Hello Ari,

    The first of the designs is already online for DK-TM4C129. The second is in final approval for EK-TM4C1294 (my lull period of 2 weeks held off the approval.. apologies to the forum.)

    Regards
    Amit
  • Amit,

     I'm glad to have you back in here.

     I did not find the designs. Can you send me a link to it?

     Ari.

     

  • Hello Ari,

    Following is the link

    www.ti.com/.../TIDM-TM4C129XSDRAM;tisearch=tidesigns

    BTW: what were the keywords you used to search, so that I can see how I can get the filters to work.

    Regards
    Amit
  • Hello Ari,

    The 2nd of the designs is now available with software and design files... This design and software support Execution in SDRAM with boot option from SD Card or Serial Flash.

    www.ti.com/.../TIDM-TM4C129SDRAMNVM;tisearch=tidesigns

    Regards
    Amit