TIDM-HV-1PH-DCAC hardware issue

Hi Kiabi,

It is difficult to figure out what's causing the issue from what you described.

Can you run the firmware check HW from build1 to  build3 based on the user's guide? This step-by-step approach helps you debug the HW.

Also, 

Best,

John

Hi;

Build 1 works correctly (open loop), the problems is with Built3 , and the Demo Built. (Closed loop)

As an example, from mainsyscfg with Built 3, with the Input DC Bus set to nominal 220V, and Vout is set for 80Vrms 60Hz, and small resistive load drawing no more than few watts. After executing the Built, and monitoring the output, correct output measured on the scope.  If the input voltage is removed, and re-applied, the output appears as 400Vpkk square wave

with 2-3 cycle of ringing, followed by the destruction if the IGBT Q1 and Q2 (not diodes).

 A-Using the DEMO built without any changes made to the mainconfigsys, a load of 100ohms applied to the output, the result is destruction of 4 IGBT and the Diodes followed by early arrival of celebration of July 4^th.  (Compensation Designer applied, STABLE and it was applied before the Rebuild of each run). Power was not removed or re-applied.

 B-The 1’st board gets repaired, except even a lower DC bus and AC Output is entered in the configuration for the Built3, with small load applied, a correct output observed. However, within few minutes, the output is no longer a sine wave, instead it reverts close to the 400vpkk square waveform, if the power to the board is not removed quickly, the IGBT Q1, and Q2 will fail again. (Compensation Designer applied, "STABLE" and it was applied before the Rebuild of each run).

 A completely brand-new board was setup, Steps in B applied, same result,  the power was quickly removed not allowing for the IGBT failures to occur.  But confident if moved forward with the DEMO Built, all IGBTs and Diodes will fail.  

Being told that total of 16 IGBT have failed and might be no stock. I have seen the board, it is no longer salvageable due to all the repair work, it is useless.

Hamid

Hamid,

We are having some internal dialogue on the above issues internally.  We have several folks who are OOO due to Memorial Day holiday/long weekend.  Please give us until Wed of next week to come back with a response.

Best,

Matthew

Hamid,

We have some internal discussions around this.  We can confirm that per our spec with the board vendor that it should undergo test of build 3 to confirm things are functional.

In looking at the TIDM page we noticed there are 2 design guides, can you comment which one was used?

https://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/tidub21 or https://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/tiduay6 we still have some folks out, but I'll try to help move this along as much as possible.

Best,

Matthew

Thanks Matthew,

The application note which misspelled the output from "110 to 22" TIDUAY6. I will read through TIDUB21, there are components on order to repair the boards. 

Hamid,

I believe that the manufacturer is testing the 110V RMS output, I see the error in TIDUAY6 and trying to root cause what was the intent or if this is just plain wrong. 

Are there are sections of TIDUB21 that look different than what you followed in TIDUAY6?

Best,

Matthew

Thanks Matthew for reply.

The typo in the application likely meant 110-220 Vrms  F 50/60Hz.

The two application note are more or less complementary to each other.

 1- There are hardware changes in the output filter for Grid Connected LCL(TIDUB21D),  vs. LC for the Inverter Mode (TIDUAY6E). Parts included in the Kit to do either.  The current set up is for Inverter Mode (LC, C=20uf).

2-The Grid Connected  avoids using the Voltage and Current Mode control, where as Inverter Mode  BUILT3, and DEMO BUILT is all based on Voltage & Current Mode Control.  And that is the case with all the failures occurred, being told they have found replacement IGBT,  and managed to repair one of the boards, they have replaced total of 32 IGBT .  BUILT3 and DEMO (out of the BOX) setup are identical except the GUIs appears different allowing some control in the operation/observation.

Before each built they have followed the application notes (TIDUAY6E) recommendation, and rebuilt. There is nothing staff  are doing incorrectly (NONE), I read the same application and followed the instruction, and the parts exploded.

Please follow up with me as soon as possible, its affecting our work progress and the staff.

Thanks

Hamid,

Can you check to see if your issue is similar to this thread on E2E?

https://e2e.ti.com/support/microcontrollers/c2000-microcontrollers-group/c2000/f/c2000-microcontrollers-forum/998672/tidm-hv-1ph-dcac-issue-with-tidm-hv-1ph-dcac_voltage-source-inverter-evm

Best,

Matthew

Thanks Matthew, I did look at the post.  At least they had better luck even though they used a load that had a PFC in the front end which for all practical purposes exhibit resistive behavior short of actually connecting a pure resistor. They did not encounter 32 blown IGBT. They had a warning on the GUI and shutdown.

Our case is with Applied 380Vdc , Output 220Vrms, 60Hz, and with nothing changed in the ConfigFile (NONE), rebuilt for BUILT3 and flashed. When a Load  around  4K applied the output is correct and no failure seen. Next if the same test repeated from scratch and the Load is 100ohms, Kiss the IGBTs goodbye. There is not enough time even for a warning message to appear on the GUI of the pending failure.

The person which designed the DEMO Kit did not due diligence during the development/or testing, you can tell by his incomplete answer.  Reading his comment "... the Demo Kit was tested with a Resitive Load ".   I wondered about that when I saw the application note before approving the purchase. This Demo Kit must have developed by a person as a matter of Graduate Course work, or a recent hire, or both.

TI should not have abandoned local support from trained Application engineer.  Virtually every distributor visiting our plant try to avoid selling anything related to TI Power Products, specially the C2000. Instead push for Infineon and ST Microelectronics Cores. 

We still need to solve this problem. :)

Hamid,

After talking with some others on the team, the failure is not obvious in nature, both because you have followed the lab procedure as well as we know that the lab conditions should have been tested before the board was shipped to you.  Also the load you are using is well within the supported range of the power output of the kit.

At this point I'm OK with giving approval for either replacement or refund of the board to see if there is some defect with your EVM in general.  Even if you bought the EVM from a distributor vs TI we should still be able to accommodate this, it will just be a different method to get things going.  Let me know and I can help guide us through the process.

Could you take a look at this design https://www.ti.com/tool/TIDM-02008 to see if it meets your needs for end use.  I know there is some overlap with the kit you have, the main difference is lack of voltage mode control. 

Best,

Matthew

Adding back the TIDM-02008 context after splitting the thread

TIDM-02008 might be an option as it is bidirectional,and the output can be AC 220V/60 HZ, we need to add a PFC to it which would have been the case anyway had the TIDM-HV-DCAC worked properly.

1-Here is what we need to do Matthew:  Will exchange one of the TIDM-HV-DCAC with TIDM-02008 "as soon as possible". The TIDM-HV-DCAC was purchased from DigiKey. Hope will have better luck TIDM-02008. 

I'm working on getting the info to swap these out.

Best,

Matthew

Thanks, outstanding, below is the mailing address:

RICHARDSON ELECTRONICS

Attn: Hamid Kiabi

40W267 Keslinger Rd, La Fox, IL 60147.

Please include your return address, will ship to your attention.

Again thank you in advance.

Thanks for UN-bundling the questions,

Hope to hear from you soon Matthew. :)

We are working on locating the HW internally, this is not a formally released kit on TI.com so we will need to ship it to you directly.  Thanks for adding your address to the email.

This is a bit premature, but would you be willing to ship back the TIDM-02008 once your evaluation is complete?

Given the above, I want to get you a refund on the HV-DCAC EVM as a defective board.  You will need to file that request with digikey, but we can use this thread as proof that TI has authorized a refund in this case.

Best,

Matthew

Thanks, and YES, will be returned.  I will ask the items to be returned to DigiKey.

The on going problem(s) with USB-JTAG and programming various DevKit from TI is resolved only if CCS 5 is used. The same techniques applied to/with CCS11 do not yield the same outcome.

Hi Matthew;

1- The problem with the USB and programming of various 32F28xxx resolved, able to download code.

2- Also suggest a PFC (Bridge and Analog Control) for output power of minimum 1KW. Might need to add

     additional capability to handle extra power if there is a need.

Hamid,

Good to know. 

I'm waiting on a colleague to verify the contents of the kit before we ship.  Hopefully we can get to it early next week(he is out today).

Best,

Matthew

Hi Hamid,

We need your email address and phone number to ship the board.

Please provide your contact information to my email address (j-kim2@ti.com).

Best,

John

Good Afternoon Matthew;

Thanks for shipping the DevKit  TIDM-2008/TIDM1007 Bi-Dir Intv PFC Inverter.

I had a chance to utilized the features of the board using the accompanying Design Guide. Jumping to testing the Inverter  option as the first step.

1-The first option for testing the Inverter is Lab5 (Open Loop DC), it works.

2-The second option for testing the Inverter is Lab6 (Open Loop AC). It does not work. No AC waveform created. The good news  is that nothing blows up.

3- The third option for testing the Inverter is Lab7 (Closed Loop DC). It works.

4- The fourth option for testing the Inverter is Lab8 (Closed Loop AC with Resisitve Load). It does not work.

Before giving up and returning the present DevKit, and evaluating other options, is it possible we can purchase a new DevKit to try out, or another verified loaner.

Thank you,

Hi Hamid,

I tested all the labs before shipping the package to you and it worked well.

Can you capture CCS debug window while running lab 6?

Best,

John

Thanks for quick response. Absolutely, will provide screen captures, as well as setup pictures. I am sure it must be something not done correctly here.

Please see attachment for your review.INVERTER.zip

Thanks.

Good Morning;

Hope the zip file that was forwarded to me include the necessary information which you be able to examine. We are very excited that after resolving the issue with the TIDM-02008-1007 (Inverter Mode) we can two sets of the TIDM-02008 for the project. The PFC mode of operation is working great, and we are planning to use it as the front end PFC for the project. Next we will use another TIDM-2008 as the Inverter.

Please follow with me when you have a chance, again thank you very much.

Sincerely;

Hamid Kiabi

Hi,

Did you follow the below instruction as well? It is shown in user guide p.56.

4. Change TTPLPFC_pwmSwState from pwmSwState_defaultState to pwmSwState_normalOperation to enable pwm output. The pwm output is turned off by default and the inverter does not work without selecting this option.

Best,

John

Hi;

Thanks for your followup, please see attached zip file.

The pwmSw State  from default state to normal (running) state was done without positive result. The software chooses the default state regardless of which mode is selected. The previous archived screen did not describe the interim reversal of the SW state to default state.

If it is helpful instead of screen shots, a video file can be created to show the continuity of events which cannot be done accurately with screen shots.

I am confident that with your help we can resolve this problem, please let me know if any other data can be collected that will be useful.

Have a pleasant weekend, hope to hear from you soon.

INVERTER Mode OPERATION SCREEN SHOTS II from TI_CCS_11.zip

Hi John,

Take a look at the screen shots 5, and 6:  EPwm1Regs.TZFLG and EPwm2Regs.TZFLG .

Thanks

Hi,

Based on the screenshot, Vbus is only 14 V. 

The under-voltage protection threshold is 110 V TTPLPFC_vBus_underVoltage_Volts = 110) and if Vbus is less than that, it won't operate.

Best,

John

Without even doing any validation of your claim, it is the same circuit that is used to measure the HV Bus when is running in the PFC Mode. And the PFC Mode works correctly, and measures the BUS voltage correctly.

Same HW but in a different mode.

The SW for PFC and Inverter are not the same and the protection scheme are different as well. The below is presented in the user guide.

"The inrush relay is closed when the DC bus voltage is higher than 110 V. The trip clears, and a sinusodal duty cycle is applied."

Thanks, Yes, and that was the intend of the last e-mail.

All can be done at this end is general purpose debugging of the HW without attempting to decipher the code.

Hi,

The HV BUS voltage scaling circuit had been verified Vin to ADC is about 0.00713 x HV_BUS, the correct value is measured at the connector control card.

The reading is erroneous off-course as reported by the GUI,  regardless of the DC input it, is always measures around 14.8Vdc corresponding to an almost no input DC voltage.  

The decision to energize the relay and up running as you pointed out is to find out why the ADC reading is not valid under the condition when it is in the Inverter Mode.

Thanks for now. 

Other things.....

After seen the problem early on, I asked a new control card to be ordered. They did, the result unfortunately identical as reported.

Thanks

Hi,

Are you saying your ADC reading is okay but GUI reading is not correct? were you able to run PFC mode and got constant 14.8 V dc as well?

Also, can you create another e2e thread for TIDM-02008? It is better to separate TIDM-02008 question from TIDM-HV-1PH-DCAC thread.

Best,

John

Hi,

Example asked to be done and result given to me.

1-Run LAB6,

2-Apply a DC voltage to HV_BUS starting from 10Vdc up to 30Vdc.

               A 30 Vdc applied.

3-Measured the DC_Voltage from R609 to GND,

              Measured  0.221 Vdc reading.

4-Measured the DC_Voltage at J600 (Control Card Pin 24)  ADC_0.

              Measured 0.221 Vdc.

5- Examine the GUI reading under the  "TTPLPFC_vBus_sensed_Volts" label under the same condition as step 2-4.

               Measured 14.89... Vdc. when the Input DC voltage was 30Vdc

6- Remove the DC bus altogether.

                GUI reports for TTPLPFC_vBus_ 14.89....

I will myself repeat the PFC Mode of operation and verify everything from Lab1 to Lab5. As reported from the GUI

they read 380...Vdc when they ran the unit in the PFC mode. I will attend to it tonight, and share the result  shortly.

Thanks for quick following up

Hi,

Please see attached archived file.

The staff which did initial work were not wrong, the problem is the unreliable interconnection from HV_BUS to the Control Card.

Will follow up shortly about the remaining tests, if no additional problems encountered that would be good.

INVERTER MODE OPERATION II.zip

Glad that you were able to see the correct measurement.

I will close this thread and if you have any further questions, please create another thread.

Best,

John