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TPS2492: VREF pin is noisy and drops to 1 V, when it should be at 4 V

Part Number: TPS2492
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: LM5020,

My design uses an LM5020 boost converter to step up 48 V to 67 V. This passes to a TPS2492PW which serves to limit power and current to the load, as the load is subject to short circuits under certain fault conditions.

In test, it became apparent that the TPS2492 was tripping off power to the load under less than the designed current, power and time limits. 

In short, I found that at light load currents, the boost converter is in discontinuous mode and all pins on the TPS2492 probe as you'd expect. As load current increases to and passes the threshold into continuous mode, Vref (Pin 2) which should be at 4 V, at first begins to oscillate between about 4 V and 1 V, and finally settles at 1 V as the boost converter gets fully into continuous mode. I assume it is this disturbance in Vref that would explain why trip thresholds are not what they should be.

Disabling the boost converter fixes the problem, trip thresholds are as designed. Using an external 67 V power supply in place of the boost converter fixes the problem, trip thresholds are as designed.

The operation of the boost converter otherwise appears normal to me at all times, there is no big change in the noise on the output, or observations on other circuit nodes, as it switches conduction modes (other than seeing it change modes). There is no change I can see on the pins probing the TPS2492, except the problem with Vref. I tried adding 1 nF per datasheet Vref to GND, no difference. With boost disabled, I tried probing pins of the TPS2492 with an RF injection probe sweeping from 50 K to a few MHz to see if I could trigger the same behaviour. I could get some feedthrough of the injected frequency to Vref by using high (10 V +) signals on the function generator, but not the same snap to 1 V behaviour.

Any ideas?

  • Hi Ross,

    Thanks for reaching out!

    Can you check whether there is any ground bounce happening with increasing load current. 

    Please share test waveforms of TPS2492 to under the issue. Please capture with reference to TPS2492 device ground.

    1. Vin, GATE, Timer and Iout 

    2. Vout, GATE, Timer and Iout 

    Best Regards,

    Rakesh

  • Hi Rakesh,

    Thanks for responding; here are the scope shots:

    1. Vin, GATE, Timer, Iout (current probe after MOSFET Q12, not from IMON Pin 6).

    LM5020 in discontinuous mode, when Vref = 4 V and looks normal:

    ...and continuous mode when Vref drops to 1 V

    2. Vout (forget to change the label still says Vin on the scope shots below, but it is Vout), GATE, Timer, Iout (current probe after MOSFET Q12, not from IMON Pin 6).

    LM5020 in discontinuous mode, when Vref = 4 V and looks normal:

    ...and continuous mode when Vref drops to 1 V

    Finally, same again but showing Vref as well, when LM5020 in discontinuous mode Vref is a steady 4 V:

    And Vref when LM5020 in continuous mode and Vref becomes unstable (have changed the x scale relative to the other shots to better show what's happening):

  • Hi Ross,

    Thanks for the test waveforms. 

    Can you share us the layout files. Why there is so much noise on all these signals ? Actually, I am looking for waveform where the device does false overload trip. I think, when the load current is near to the overload trip point, the noise is causing to false trigger the overload event at lower value.

    Have you tried increasing decoupling capacitors for your LM5020 section ?

    Best Regards,

    Rakesh

  • I'll try and capture those waveforms for you later, but yes one aspect would appear to be noise pushing over the trip threshold. However two things are still suspicious to me:

    1. No matter the noise, why does Vref drop to about 1 V? Why would Vref change from 4 V ever?
    2. I have tried drawing much larger pulses of current than the noise (e.g. 10 A for 1 ms) and it does not cause the latched tripping

    Here's the layout for the LM5020 boost section and TPS2492 limiter. The board is 6 layers, with inner ground and power planes for the Vin Vout etc not shown here.

  • Hi Ross,

    Vref should be a stable 4V. I think, noise might be affecting the internal regulator. Are you observing 4V when powered it from clean source ?

    On TPS2492 layout, I have one observation. Kelvin sensing should be followed for current shunt https://e2e.ti.com/blogs_/b/powerhouse/posts/choosing-the-right-sense-resistor-layout 

    I would suggest to get LM5020 reviewed by respective product line. Please create separate E2E thread for LM5020 layout review. If we confine the switching noise to LM5020 section. We can avoid the secondary affects.

    Best Regards,

    Rakesh

  • Hi Rakesh,

    Yes, Vref is stable when the TPS2492 is powered from a clean source. Thanks for the note about kelvin sensing, we'll implement that on the next version of the board. 

    I'll do as you suggest and make a post to the LM5020 section. Some of the noise on my earlier scope shots was due to poor probing technique, with the probe ground and tip close and short, the switching noise is greatly reduced.

  • Ok Ross. Let me know based on LM5020 feedback and recommendations if we still see the issue.

    Best Regards,

    Rakesh