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TDC1000: Flow measurement of hypochlorous acid water (water)

Y.Ottey
Mastermind 6145 points
Part Number: TDC1000
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: TDC7200, MSP430FR6047, TUSS4470, PGA460

Dear TI Team

Our customer is considering the TDC1000 to measure the flow rate of liquids through tubes of the following materials.
・Material of pipe: Resin pipe
・Flowing liquid: Hypochlorous acid water (water)

Is it possible to use TDC1000 with the above usage?
Also, please tell me if there is a device for flow rate measurement (AFE etc.) suitable for the above usage.

Best Regards,

Y.Ottey

  • 0
    TI__Expert 3450 points

    Hello,

    It is possible to use the TDC1000 paired with the TDC7200 and an MCU, but it is better suited for liquid level and concentration measurements. we do not recommend it for flow metering. The MSP430FR6047 is an integrated AFE and MCU designed for all flow metering applications, which we recommend for this application. 

    Regards,

    Gabriel

  • 0 in reply to Gabriel Lake1
    Mastermind 6145 points

    Dear Gariel

    Thank you for your reply.

    I would like to know the following additional contents.

    "It is possible to use the TDC1000 paired with the TDC7200 and an MCU, but it is better suited for liquid level and concentration measurements." 

    1. As mentioned above, when using TDC1000 to perform liquid level and concentration measurements instead of flow rate measurement, is it possible to measure the following pipe materials and liquids?

    ・Material of pipe: Resin pipe
    ・Flowing liquid: Hypochlorous acid water (water)

    2. Looking at other products, I found Ultrasonic Sensor ICs like the TUSS4440 and TUSS4470.
    Is it possible to use this IC to measure the flow rate of liquid through tubes of the following materials?
    ・ Pipe material: Resin pipe
    ・Fluid: Hypochlorous acid water (water)

    Regards,

    Y.Ottey

  • 0 in reply to Y.Ottey
    TI__Expert 3450 points

    Y.Ottey,

    The TUSS470 is a more capable choice than the TDC1000 for flow metering, but the MSP430FR6047 is currently our most robust and reliable solution in this space. The tube material will not matter if the flow meter is in-line, meaning that the sensors have direct access to the fluid inside and do not have to go through the pipe wall.  

    Otherwise, it is theoretically possible for these sensors to work in a flow meter external to the pipe, however, we typically only support applications of these sensors in in-line flow meters.  For example: http://www.audiowell.com/flowsensorwithpipe/78.html. 

    Unfortunately we do not have conclusive data to be able to advise you further if the application is an external flow meter. 

    The type of liquid is not an issue, as long as the speed of sound through the liquid is determined and it does not cause damage to the meter components. 

    Regards,

    Gabriel

  • 0 in reply to Gabriel Lake1
    Mastermind 6145 points

    Gabriel

    Thank you for your reply.

    I would like to ask adding questions.

    1.
    "it is theoretically possible for these sensors to work in a flow meter external to the pipe, however, we typically only support applications of these sensors in in-line flow meters."

    I have a question about the above.
    Is it due to the specifications of the device you introduced (TUSS4400 / 4470 or MSP430FR604) that you can only support in-line flowmeters? Or is it due to the transducer you are using?

    I have confirmed with our customers that the transducer is externally attached to the tube and measures the flow rate of the liquid.

    2.

    On the TUSS4400 / 4470 or MSP430FR604 EVM page, there was a list of recommended transducers.
    https://www.ti.com/lit/zip/slac787

    Is there any other information about transducers recommended for flow measurement with the TUSS 4400/4470 or MSP430FR604?

    Regards,

    Y.Ottey

  • 0 in reply to Y.Ottey
    TI__Expert 3450 points

    Y.Ottey,

    Y.Ottey said:
    Is it due to the specifications of the device you introduced (TUSS4400 / 4470 or MSP430FR604) that you can only support in-line flowmeters? Or is it due to the transducer you are using?

    We cannot give substantiated advice on external flow metering applications because we do not have enough collateral materials and test data to do so. Pipe wall thickness, material, diameter, reflector configuration, transducer and other factors significantly impact the return echo signal in this application. The TUSS44xx or MSP430FR604x may be sufficient for some external pipe metering applications, but there are so many additional system factors that impact performance, that we are cautious about making any guarantees. Our product literature suggests the MSP430FR6047 is capable of flow metering up to a 40" diameter pipe, assuming contact between the transducer and fluid. 

    Choosing the right transducer and AFE to achieve a high enough SPL is important for this application and it may be necessary to experiment with several different transducers. The TUSS4470 can output 36V using its internal H-bridge driver or it can be used in pre-driver mode with an external drive circuit to drive higher voltages. The MSP430FR6047 drives the transducer directly with a 3.3V square wave, which may not be enough. See reference design TIDA-01486 which uses the MSP430FR6047 to drive an external driver circuit that outputs a higher voltage to the transducer. Either one of these devices would be a good choice. 

    Please have a look at these app notes and e2e post:

    How to Select and Mount Transducers in Ultrasonic Sensing for Level Sensing and Fluid ID

    MSP430FR6047: Technical comparison between MSP430FR6047 and TUSS4470    

    Using Ultrasonic Sensing to Monitor Fluid Level in Tanks   

    That list you mention was made for the PGA460. I would recommend these 1MHz transducers for either device:

    Audiowell flow transducer

    steminc 28mm

    steminc 15mm

    Regards,

    Gabriel