TINA (not WEBENCH!) Simulation of Fly-Buck DC-DC converter with LM25018/LM5018

federico travaglia

Other Parts Discussed in Thread: LM5018, LM25018, TINA-TI, LM5020

Hello everyone,

I would like to simulate with SPICE TI-TINA a typical application of Fly-buck isolated DC-DC converter by using the ICs LM25018 or LM5018, or similar from the same family. Of course I have already checked some previous posts, but I did not find any related topic.

The website of this component shows only the PSPICE model available, not directly for TI-TINA.

Question: can I import this PSPICE model directly into Tina environment?

I have just checked the netlist of PSPICE unencrypted file .lib. In my opinion there are some mistakes, especially related to the dependent generators E and G with VALUE and TABLE, e.g. the sign = is maybe missing... I am not a specialist of PSPICE anyway...

Of course many thanks in advance for any support or suggestion

Federico

over 8 years ago

0 Mahavir Jain over 8 years ago

TI__Intellectual 2405 points

Hello Federico,

You can always import an un-encrypted model from PSPICE to TINA-TI. There is a detailed post with step by step procedure and accompanying video available in below FAQ section:

Importing Unencrypted PSPICE models into TINA-TI.

Please try it out and let us know if you face any issues during import or simulation process.

Also regarding syntax issues in PSPICE lib file, you can always download the project file from product folder, replace the encrypted library file with unencrypted one and run simulations. We take utmost care while uploading these files on TI website, but if you face any issues, you are welcome to post them here. We'll look into it and get back to you.

Thanks!!

Best Regards,

Mahavir Jain.

0 federico travaglia over 8 years ago in reply to Mahavir Jain

Prodigy 80 points

Hello,

first many thanks for the prompt reply.

Well, I have just applied the rules to import a PSPICE macromodel into TINA environment.
First, the .lib file can be compiled from TINA w/o problems.
Then, I have tried to create a macromodel in TINA with the related symbol.
Unfortunately there are some problems.

By the option "Load shape from library" TINA suggest to use the symbol of LM5020 as template for the LM25018.
In principle no problem, it would be the suitable symbol, some number of pins, more or less same geometry, but....
As soon as I finished to assign the new pin names to the LM5020 closing the window with next, the new symbol of LM25018 is created and saved but unfortunately on the circuit schematic it show always the same pin names of LM5020, not of LM25018 (they are not the same!)

OK, I could try the other option "Auto generate shape", but I cannot shift or change the position of the pin around the symbol. That is not really good, because the I/O pins should be set to the right position in order to obtain a clear schematic.

Could you please suggest me some other solutions?

I would like to post also some flash of the procedure I used but I do not understand if I can attach some .png or .bmp
Anyway I hope you have understand the kind of problem I have

Many thanks in advance for any support

BR
Federico

0 Mahavir Jain over 8 years ago in reply to federico travaglia

TI__Intellectual 2405 points

Hello Federico,

Both the problems you mentioned above, can be solved by using the Symbol Editor in TINA-TI.

While using LM5020 macro, after associating it with LM5018 lib file, you can always modify the symbol as per your needs. Insert he macro in schematic window and right click on it. This will give you "Edit Symbol" option. Once Symbol Editor window opens up, you an do all sorts of modifications to the Symbol, change its shape, size, pin locations, properties etc. You can open the Symbol Editor manually using Edit >> Symbol option once you select the symbol to be updated in schematic window.

The same will be applicable for the Auto Generated Symbol as well. But preferably use suggested symbol and edit it later in schematic.

Hope this helps resolve the issues. Kindly let me know if you need any other help.

Thanks!!

Best Regards,

Mahavir Jain.

0 federico travaglia over 8 years ago in reply to Mahavir Jain

Prodigy 80 points

Hello again,

I checked your option to modify everything I want directly with Symbol Editor.
I made it, that is, I modified the pin names and also the position in order to create the circuit clearly.
I saved everything and checked again the LM25018.lib is correctly linked to this symbol.
After creating a circuit with the LM25018 I run a simulation but unfortunately I receive the error message " TLD pin: RT does not match any pin of the macro component ... "
RT was a pin of LM5020, not of LM25018. That means probably, the simulation is using again the LM5020 symbol

Any idea about the reason of this error? What was my mistake this time?

BR
Federico

0 Mahavir Jain over 8 years ago in reply to federico travaglia

TI__Intellectual 2405 points

Hello Federico,

I think the issue is that the TINA symbol library is not getting compiled after symbol modification. I have attached the LM5018.lib and LM5018.tld files to this post. Please download, remove .txt extension and keep them in below path "C:\Program Files (x86)\DesignSoft\Tina 9 - TI\SPICELIB" or corresponding location on your system where TINA-TI is installed.

Then open TINA-TI and go to Tools >> Re-Compile Library and Tools >> Re-Build library.

This should resolve the issue. We can take this offline. Please send me an e-mail on mahavir@ti.com if you are still facing issues.

Thanks!!

Best Regards,

Mahavir Jain.

LM5018.lib.txt

*$
* LM5018
*****************************************************************************
*  (C) Copyright 2012 Texas Instruments Incorporated. All rights reserved.
*****************************************************************************
** This model is designed as an aid for customers of Texas Instruments.
** TI and its licensors and suppliers make no warranties, either expressed
** or implied, with respect to this model, including the warranties of 
** merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose.  The model is
** provided solely on an "as is" basis.  The entire risk as to its quality
** and performance is with the customer
*****************************************************************************
*
** Released by: WEBENCH Design Center, Texas Instruments Inc.
* Part: LM5018
* Date: 13AUG2012
* Model Type: Transient
* Simulator: PSPICE
* Simulator Version: 16.2.0.p001
* EVM Order Number: AN-2237
* EVM Users Guide: SNVA666
* Datasheet: SNVS787B
*
* Model Version: Final 1.00
*
*****************************************************************************
*
* Updates:
*
* Final 1.00
* Release to Web.
*
*****************************************************************************
.SUBCKT LM5018 RON RTN EP FB SW BST VCC VIN UVLO
R_U4_R3         U4_N171579 U4_N171585  10 TC=0,0 
X_U4_S1    U4_N171701 U4_N171719 U4_N171579 U4_N171573 STARTUP_REG_U4_S1 
D_U4_D10         U4_N171585 VCC Dbreak 
R_U4_R36         EN U4_N223324  10 TC=0,0 
E_U4_E18         U4_N223324 0 VALUE { IF(V(UVLO,0)<1.25,0, IF(V(VCC,0)<5,0,5))
+  }
C_U4_C2         0 EN  1n  TC=0,0 
R_U4_R35         0 EN  10k TC=0,0 
R_U4_R5         0 U4_N171719  100k TC=0,0 
R_U4_R6         0 U4_N171701  100k TC=0,0 
X_U4_S3    UVLO 0 VIN U4_N171569 STARTUP_REG_U4_S3 
E_U4_E1         U4_N171573 0 TABLE { V(U4_N171569, 0) } 
+ ( (1.4,0.7) (8.9,8.2) )
G_U4_ABMI3         0 UVLO VALUE { IF(V(EN,0)<2.5,0,IF(V(UVLO,0)<VREF,0,
+  IF(V(UVLO,0)>5,0, 20u)))    }
E_U4_E2         U4_N171701 U4_N171719 TABLE { V(U4_N171579, U4_N171585) } 
+ ( (0.25,1) (0.30,0.9) )
D_U4_D9         VCC BST Dbreak 
C_U4_C1         0 U4_N171585  1n  TC=0,0 
R_U4_R7         0 U4_N171569  100k TC=0,0 
E_U2_E7         U2_QB_ND 0 VALUE { IF(V(U2_SET,0)<2.5,
+  IF(V(U2_Q_ND,0)<2.5,5,0),0) }
E_U2_E15         QBD 0 VALUE { IF(V(U2_QB_ND,0)<2.5,0, IF(V(QB,0)<2.5,0,5)) }
E_U2_E8         U2_Q_ND 0 VALUE { IF(V(U2_RESET,0)<=2.5,
+  IF(V(U2_QB_ND,0)<2.5,5,0),0) }
E_U2_E16         QD 0 VALUE { IF(V(U2_Q_ND,0)<2.5,0, IF(V(U2_Q,0)<2.5,0,5)) }
E_U2_E9         U2_SET 0 VALUE { IF(V(U2_RESET,0)>=2.5,0,IF(V(SET3,0)>2.5,5,0))
+  }
R_U2_R30         0 QBD  100k TC=0,0 
E_U2_E10         U2_RESET 0 VALUE {
+  IF(V(CON,0)>VREF,5,IF(V(ILIM,0)>2.5,5,IF(V(FB,0)>1.62,5,0))) }
R_U2_R12         QB U2_QB_ND  1k TC=0,0 
R_U2_R31         0 QD  100k TC=0,0 
R_U2_R19         U2_Q_ND U2_Q  1k TC=0,0 
C_U2_C5         U2_Q 0  50p IC=0 TC=0,0 
C_U2_C6         QB 0  50p IC=5 TC=0,0 
R_U1_R17         0 U1_N187524  100k TC=0,0 
R_U1_R34         U1_N187172 U1_N187248  2k TC=0,0 
R_U1_R22         0 ILIM  100k TC=0,0 
C_U1_C13         U1_N187172 U1_N187238  10p IC=5 TC=0,0 
D_U1_D11         SW U1_N187094 Dbreak 
D_U1_D6         COFF_ILIM U1_N210973 Dbreak 
X_U1_S8    ILIM 0 COFF_ILIM 0 DRIVER_U1_S8 
E_U1_E17         U1_N187248 U1_N187238 VALUE { IF(V(QBD, 0)>2.5,5,0) }
R_U1_R20         U1_N187142 U1_N187560  2k TC=0,0 
R_U1_R24         VREF U1_N210973  1k TC=0,0 
X_U1_S9    U1_N187172 U1_N187238 SW RTN DRIVER_U1_S9 
C_U1_C10         U1_N187142 U1_N187524  10p IC=5 TC=0,0 
R_U1_R25         U1_N211031 U1_ISENSE  100k TC=0,0 
G_U1_ABMI2         0 COFF_ILIM VALUE { IF(V(EN,0)<2.5,0,
+  VREF*10u*(V(FB,0)+0.2)/(0.07*V(VIN,0)))    }
C_U1_C9         U1_N211031 0  1p IC=5 TC=0,0 
D_U1_D7         RTN SW Dbreak 
E_U1_E19         U1_ISENSE 0 VALUE { I(V_U1_VH1) }
E_U1_E4         U1_N187560 U1_N187524 VALUE { IF(V(QD, 0)>2.5,5,0) }
C_U1_C8         COFF_ILIM 0  10p IC=5 TC=0,0 
R_U1_R32         0 U1_N187172  100k TC=0,0 
X_U1_S5    U1_N187142 U1_N187524 U1_N187094 SW DRIVER_U1_S5 
L_U1_L2         U1_N196671 U1_N187094  10n  
R_U1_R33         0 U1_N187238  100k TC=0,0 
R_U1_R16         0 U1_N187142  100k TC=0,0 
E_U1_E5         ILIM 0 VALUE { IF(V(U1_N211031, 0)>0.575,5,0) }
V_U1_VH1         VIN U1_N196671 0Vdc
R_R36         0 EP  1k TC=0,0 
D_U5_D8         CON VREF Dbreak 
R_U5_R10         0 VREF  10k TC=0,0 
X_U5_S2    UVLO 0 U5_N224691 0 TIMER_U5_S2 
E_U5_E3         VREF 0 VALUE { IF(V(VCC,0) <5, 0, VREF) }
C_U5_C4         0 CON  10p  TC=0,0 
V_U5_VF1         RON U5_N224691 0Vdc
G_U5_ABMI4         0 CON VALUE { 0.1*VREF*I(V_U5_VF1)    }
X_U5_S6    QB 0 CON 0 TIMER_U5_S6 
E_U3_E11         SET3 0 VALUE {
+  IF(V(U3_TOFF,0)<=2.5,0,IF(V(U3_FBCOMP,0)<=2.5,0,5)) }
D_U3_D5         U3_COFF U3_N184129 Dbreak 
E_U3_E12         U3_TOFF 0 VALUE {
+  IF(V(COFF_ILIM,0)<VREF,0,IF(V(U3_COFF,0)<VREF,0,5)) }
R_U3_R21         0 U3_N184171  100k TC=0,0 
E_U3_E13         U3_N184171 0 VALUE { V(QD,0) }
G_U3_ABMI1         0 U3_COFF VALUE { IF(V(EN,0)<2.5,0,8.68u)    }
C_U3_C12         U3_COFF 0  1p IC=5 TC=0,0 
R_U3_R13         VREF U3_N184129  1k TC=0,0 
X_U3_S7    U3_N184171 0 U3_N184319 0 TOFF_LOGIC_U3_S7 
R_U3_R18         U3_COFF U3_N184319  5k TC=0,0 
E_U3_E6         U3_FBCOMP 0 VALUE { IF(V(EN,0)<2.5,0,
+  IF(V(FB,0)<V(VREF,0),5,0)) }
.PARAM  vref=1.225
.ENDS LM5018
*$
.subckt STARTUP_REG_U4_S1 1 2 3 4  
S_U4_S1         3 4 1 2 _U4_S1
RS_U4_S1         1 2 1G
.MODEL         _U4_S1 VSWITCH Roff=10k Ron=1 Voff=0.9V Von=1.0V
.ends STARTUP_REG_U4_S1
*$
.subckt STARTUP_REG_U4_S3 1 2 3 4  
S_U4_S3         3 4 1 2 _U4_S3
RS_U4_S3         1 2 1G
.MODEL         _U4_S3 VSWITCH Roff=1e6 Ron=1.0 Voff=0.45V Von=0.7V
.ends STARTUP_REG_U4_S3
*$
.subckt DRIVER_U1_S8 1 2 3 4  
S_U1_S8         3 4 1 2 _U1_S8
RS_U1_S8         1 2 1G
.MODEL         _U1_S8 VSWITCH Roff=1e9 Ron=100 VH=1 VT=2.5 TD=0
.ends DRIVER_U1_S8
*$
.subckt DRIVER_U1_S9 1 2 3 4  
S_U1_S9         3 4 1 2 _U1_S9
RS_U1_S9         1 2 1G
.MODEL         _U1_S9 VSWITCH Roff=1e6 Ron=0.6 Voff=3V Von=3.5V
.ends DRIVER_U1_S9
*$
.subckt DRIVER_U1_S5 1 2 3 4  
S_U1_S5         3 4 1 2 _U1_S5
RS_U1_S5         1 2 1G
.MODEL         _U1_S5 VSWITCH Roff=1e6 Ron=1.0 Voff=3V Von=3.5V
.ends DRIVER_U1_S5
*$
.subckt TIMER_U5_S2 1 2 3 4  
S_U5_S2         3 4 1 2 _U5_S2
RS_U5_S2         1 2 1G
.MODEL         _U5_S2 VSWITCH Roff=140k Ron=6k Voff=0.45V Von=0.7V
.ends TIMER_U5_S2
*$
.subckt TIMER_U5_S6 1 2 3 4  
S_U5_S6         3 4 1 2 _U5_S6
RS_U5_S6         1 2 1G
.MODEL         _U5_S6 VSWITCH Roff=1e6 Ron=1.0 Voff=1.5V Von=3.5V
.ends TIMER_U5_S6
*$
.subckt TOFF_LOGIC_U3_S7 1 2 3 4  
S_U3_S7         3 4 1 2 _U3_S7
RS_U3_S7         1 2 1G
.MODEL         _U3_S7 VSWITCH Roff=1e7 Ron=1e3 VH=2V VT=2.5V TD=0
.ends TOFF_LOGIC_U3_S7
*$
.model Dbreak D Is=1e-14 Cjo=.1pF Rs=.1
*$

LM5018.tld.txt

Texas Instruments
SUBCKT LM5018 RON RTN EP FB SW BST VCC VIN UVLO   Texas:TPS53219_TRANS  [SMPS]  ; No processable comment
LOCKED VLY=

0 federico travaglia over 8 years ago in reply to Mahavir Jain

Prodigy 80 points

Hello,

today at home I have generated the model by the Autogenerate option. I think it work (no error message) but please let me a bit time to design now the right circuit with the LM25018.

Furthermore I will try also the option with your attached files next week, just to undertsand the difference for future applications with other macromodel.

Have a nice weekend or have a nice week

Federico

0 Mahavir Jain over 8 years ago in reply to federico travaglia

TI__Intellectual 2405 points

Hello Federico,

As discussed offline, since all the issues have been resolved and schematics are working properly now in TINA-TI, I will close this forum post.

Thanks!!

Best Regards,
Mahavir Jain.

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TINA (not WEBENCH!) Simulation of Fly-Buck DC-DC converter with LM25018/LM5018