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CC1190: PA table configuration for CC1354 + CC1190

Bhautik Ramoliya
Prodigy 100 points
Part Number: CC1190
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: CC1354P10, , CC1352R, CC1352P, CC1352P7, CC1310

Hi there,

   We have our custom design based on CC1354P10 (RGZ) with SubGHz lines + Balun (discrete) + SAW + CC1190. 

  1. I would like to know the PA table configuration for the same.
  2. And does above PA table configuration will change if we use (Johnson/Murata balun which is verified for CC1352R & CC1352P versions), we hope that Johnson/murata balun can work fine with CC1354P10 RGZ (7x7mm) as well, as we thinks that it is pin to pin compatible with CC1352P7
  3. And this PA table configuration remains same for any modulation/radio that CC1354P10 supports? (ex. WiSUN with different phy mode, TI 15.4 stack etc), or it is required to have tuning based on the phy/mode we select?
  4. Ideally to achieve 27dBm output, what maximum power we should use from CC1354P10 ? (SubGHZ lines)
  5. And any thought, like how we can make the dedicated TX (27dBm) and dedicated RX with any of above configuration?
  6. Is there any way to measure the output power (conductive) in our board using RF Studio? (otherwise we planned for the lab testing with spectrum & power analyzer but before that i would like to know if is there any way to check that without standard instruments?)

Regards,
The Mat


    

  • 0
    TI__Mastermind 18985 points

    Hi Bhautik,

    1. This has not been finalised. The current recommendation is to start with the same PA table that is used for the CC1310+CC1190, but further tuning of the PA table may be required. I can email you with more information about this after double-checking with the rest of the team.

    2. We recommend the same PA table for both vendors, but I will also check with the team for confirmation. The CC1354P10 RGZ package is pin-pin compatible with the CC1352P7 (as you mention).

    3. Yes, the PA table setting will stay the same for the different PHYs/modulation schemes when using the same frequency band(s).

    4. I will need to check this and get back to you.

    5. What is the context for needing this? The main way of implementing this that I can envision is to use single-ended outputs for dedicated TX and RX paths (i.e. RF_P for TX single-ended operation and RF_N for RX single-ended operation).

    6. We would strongly recomend using calibrated lab instrumentation (i.e. a Spectrum Analyser) for this. You could try a setup based on Section 6.1 of SWRA370 (Basic RF Testing of CCxxxx Devices): https://www.ti.com/lit/swra370 to see if the RX performance is around what you expect, but would not be very reliable.

    I will reply with follow-ups to questions 1, 2, and 4 this week.

    Regards,

    Zack

  • 0 in reply to ZC
    Prodigy 100 points

    HI Jack,

      Thanks for your reply.

      2) Could you please confirm if we can use the Johnson/murata balun with CC1354P10 RGZ as well?

  • 0 in reply to Bhautik Ramoliya
    Prodigy 100 points

    Hi Zack,

       I would also like to know that how we can derive the exact PA table for CC1354P10RGZ + CC1190 custom hardware?

      
       Does the value of PA table depends on the Balun/SAW/PI Network as well? Please guide on the starting point and how to achieve the optimum PA table as per our custom design. 

  • 0 in reply to Bhautik Ramoliya
    TI__Mastermind 18985 points

    Hi Bhautik,

    Following up on your original questions:

    • After checking, I need to correct the answer to Q1. Please use the PA table from the CC1354P10 Sub-1 GHz 868/915 MHz settings in SmartRF Studio as the starting point. 
    • You can use the Johanson and Murata IPCs with any of the CC13x1/CC13x2/CC13x4 (RGZ (7 x 7mm) packages.
    • The maximum input power for the CC1190 is +10 dBm, so starting with the +10 dBm setting for the CC1354P10 Sub-1 GHz path is probably the best approach.

    Regarding your follow-on questions:

      I would also like to know that how we can derive the exact PA table for CC1354P10RGZ + CC1190 custom hardware?

    • To derive a new PA table, details are given in Section 10 of SWRA640 (CC13xx/CC26xx Hardware Configuration and PCB Design Considerations): https://www.ti.com/lit/swra640
    • The goal is to determine PA table settings that produce consistent output power at each required setting over temperature and the device population.
    • We are also looking at developing a reference design using the CC1354P10 and CC1190 over the next few quarters but cannot give specifics on the timeframe, so if your design needs to be complete sooner then I would recommend investigating this on your end and we can assist this process through E2E/email.

    Does the value of PA table depends on the Balun/SAW/PI Network as well? Please guide on the starting point and how to achieve the optimum PA table as per our custom design. 

    • It will depend on these parameters as well, but to a varying degree for each parameter.
      • In practice, the PI network will be tuned for the antenna used after the conducted performance is finalised.
      • For the SAW filter, testing the board performance first is recommended - in many cases it will not have a large effect on the matching network (due to its 50 Ohm input/output terminating impedances).
      • Consequently, it is most efficient to see what the device performance is first with the initial settings as they could already be acceptable.
    • We are updating SWRA640 linked above, so I will provide Section 9 below as it may help clarify some of the factors involved (so that you do not need to wait):

    The matching environment for optimum performance is determined through a combination of load- and source-pull measurements, given as a terminating load/source impedance. This requires comprehensive measurements to characterize the nonlinear response of the RF front-end.

    The parameters considered include:

    • TX Output Power
    • TX Efficiency
    • TX Harmonic Power Levels
    • TX Output Spectrum
    • RX Sensitivity

    The operating conditions considered include:

    • The operational frequency band
    • Operating voltage range
    • TX Power Setting
    • Package parasitics

    Additionally, the effect of temperature variation on TX/RX performance must also be taken into account.

    These impedance locations are typically located in different regions of the Smith chart and a design space giving the best tradeoff between TX and RX performance is identified for a given set of operating conditions.

    The identified target impedance(s) can also be highly dependent on the power and ground planes of the application circuit as well as accurate measurement system calibration, along with the effects of differential and common current components due to the PCB layout. Whilst detailed simulations of the PCB using EDA tools can add confidence to a design, simulation inaccuracies (such as component models) add additional errors that can be difficult to account for.

    Due to the number of parameters that must be considered and amount of testing required for a robust design, it is strongly recommended to follow the reference design.

    • What I would recommend for finding PA table settings is the following approach:
      • Use the CC1354P10 Sub-1 GHz 868/915 MHz PA table as the starting point and measure the output power from the CC1190 for the different table steps.
      • Once this is done, please provide those results (perhaps over email would be easiest).
      • From there, we can discuss the next steps needed depending on the current board performance.
      • Do you have the facilities to test your board performance over temperature?

    Regards,

    Zack

  • 0 in reply to ZC
    Prodigy 100 points

    Hi Zack,

       A bundle of thanks for the detailed reply.

      Could you please give your email id for the further discussion on this? or if you can ping me to my mail ID?

      Regarding CC1190 , we will start with +10dBm and then reduce it to check further. But do you think so continuous +10dBm is good to feed to CC1190? as may be due to temperature compensation it might vary a bit and if goes a bit higher then it might damages CC1190 as well. Isn't it?

      I will share more details over the email, currently i am closing this thread.

    regards,
    The Mat