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Strange behavior of a simple LME49710 instrument (guitar) buffer circuit

Other Parts Discussed in Thread: TL072, NE5532, LME49720, TL071, OPA134, OPA604

Hello All,

I built a simple buffer circuit using a LME49710. I chose the device for its high input impedance and also because it did not require offset nulling. It sounds good but I encounter a strange behavior when the circuit is disconnected from and then reconnected to the power source (single supply, regulated 9VDC). The circuit does not turn fully on (very low output, lower than unity). It would require for the circuit ground to be disconnected from the power supply ground to "reset" the circuit and enable it to fully power up. Could this be because the op amp is designed for dual-supply and I am using it with a single supply? Is there something I could do to make it work with a single supply? I could post a schematic if that would help.


Thanks

  • Hi, Sam,

    I suspect the "strange behavior" you are seeing is due to the fact you are trying to run this single supply. This IC was designed to operate from split supplies. 

    D2

  • Post the schematic and I'll take a look.


    I'd like to see how you did your rail splitter in particular.

  • Sam Blaza wrote: "I built a simple buffer circuit using a LME49710. I chose the device for its high input impedance and also because it did not require offset nulling. It sounds good but I encounter a strange behavior when the circuit is disconnected from and then reconnected to the power source (single supply, regulated 9VDC). The circuit does not turn fully on (very low output, lower than unity). It would require for the circuit ground to be disconnected from the power supply ground to "reset" the circuit and enable it to fully power up. Could this be because the op amp is designed for dual-supply and I am using it with a single supply? Is there something I could do to make it work with a single supply? I could post a schematic if that would help."


    Sam - I was able to duplicate this issue exactly in what may be a similar circuit to yours. My test circuit is a +6dB non-inverting guitar input designed to use a TL072 BiFET input.

    To avoid loading guitar pickups a high value bias resistor, typically 1M, is used to bias the non-inverting input to mid-supply typically around 4.5V. The LME49720 (in your case a '49710 single) is a bipolar input op amp. The LME49720 has a low 10 nA typical (72 nA max)  bias current requirement which is orders of magnitude better than a NE5532 which is 1 uA. For the LME49720 it would appear that a 1M bias resistor would be fine given that at the maximum bias current of 72 nA across a 1M Rbias only 72 mV of error would occur. This may not be the case however.

    On power-up, with a 1M Rbias, my guitar input would latch-up using an LME49720 but works properly using a TL072 or MC33178. For it to start-up properly Rbias had to be reduced to ~100K. I suspect, but do not know for sure, that at start-up the bias current requirements for an LME49710 may be significantly more than the 72 nA maximum. The back-to-back input protection diodes from the non-inverting to inverting input may also play a role during start-up.

    The LME49710 or 49720 can be run on single supplies using rail-splitters and AC-coupling without issue but it appears that the DC impedance for input bias current should be lower than what the bias current specifications alone suggest. My recommendation would be to use a FET input part such as the TL071 for the high-impedance input. A 100K Rbias load is simply too low for most guitar pickups and the high impedance needed may not provide enough bias current for this particular bipolar input op amp.

  • Thanks for the replies. Somehow, hotmail was dumping ti.com email into the junk folder. Anyway, here is the link to the schematic: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ax0zq1jczaae16f/OPAMP-BUFFER-V3.pdf

    I will try a smaller Rbias when I get a chance. If I need a smaller Rbias to make it work, then I might just have to find a different op amp. Maybe a OPA134 or 604 as suggested. I was trying to avoid offset trims, but that might not be necessary in my application.

  • Sam - Thanks for posting the schematic. Of the two OPA-series choices I mentioned I think the OPA134 would be the better choice. After I wrote my reply suggesting the OPA604 I realized that it may not allow operation from 9V. The OPA604 has a +/-4.5V minimum; the OPA134 +/-2.5V. Since the circuit is AC-coupled and the gain unity I don't think you're going to have issues with offset using BiFETS. ( I later edited the post to remove the '604.)

    I ran some tests with various values of bias resistors on the bipolar LME49710 and found that with +/-3.5V supplies (9V end-of-life) 100K was about the minimum value to assure start-up. That is, as you already know, too low for a guitar front-end. Even if 1M would work as a bias resistor, the noise current density of the LME49710 is approx 1.6 pA per root hertz vs. 3 fA for the OPA134. I think you would find that in this application the LME49710 to be noisier than the FET OPA134 due to the LME49710's current noise contribution.

    I'll post the link to the start-up tests in another reply since I recall links require moderator approval.

  • These are the tests I ran on a small population of LME49710's start-up behavior with various values of Rbias.

    http://www.proaudiodesignforum.com/forum/php/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=641

  • I tried your test on my layout and replaced the 2.2M Rbias with a 100k, and it starts up reliably every time. It does seem that the LME49710 requires a much larger Ibias to start-up. 100k is too small for my application so it looks like I will be going with the OPA134. I've used the 2134 on other projects and was happy with it.

  • Thanks Sam. Do let us know how the OPA134 works out in this application. I have a few of the OPA134 (and its dual) saved in my shopping cart at Mouser to run that very same test in a guitar front end.