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TAS5754M: DC and symmetry behaviour under load

Part Number: TAS5754M
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: TAS5756M

Hello Team,

our customer found following behavior:

What we noticed is that during loud music/power transients, the woofer cone moves outward significantly and very visibly and returns with a time constant of about 1 second. This looks quite worrying, for the sake of woofer longevity as well as public perception.

In measurement we can reproduce this on a dummy load by generating a tone burst at ~300 Hz, -10dBFS (level such that the sine wave itself is just about clipping), and recording the DC output.

The woofer has a nominal impedance of 6 Ohms which we match with the dummy load.

 

 

Inline images 1

 

Additionally, we see that the 300Hz sine wave itself is very asymmetrical and goes further negative than positive and seems to move around DC, as if a servo feedback loop is trying to catch.

 

This was unexpected from understanding the theory of BD modulation so perhaps it could be a side effect of the '54Ms different modulation scheme w.r.t. the '56M?

 

We've double- and triple checked our Hybridflow tuning and programming by the microcontroller. The fact that it's reproducable even with a blank hybridflow on the eval board leads suspicion to the hardware itself.

 

The issue is related to die core temperature as it is easier provoked after the amplifier has been running full power for a while, or at elevated power supply levels.

We can also observe a cold amplifier behaving well until warm up, and influence the 'stable' period with the thermal mass of the cooling solution. Eventually however, this behaviour may be consistently provoked.

 

Inline images 2

 

When the amplifier is unloaded, the onset of clipping is symmetrical and the DC 'overshoot' is less than 20 mV, which is innocent. However, we prefer the amplifier with a nice loudspeaker as a load...

 

Many Thanks

Josef

  • What we noticed is that during loud music/power transients, the woofer cone moves outward significantly and very visibly and returns with a time constant of about 1 second. This looks quite worrying, for the sake of woofer longevity as well as public perception.

    In measurement we can reproduce this on a dummy load by generating a tone burst at ~300 Hz, -10dBFS (level such that the sine wave itself is just about clipping), and recording the DC output.

    The woofer has a nominal impedance of 6 Ohms which we match with the dummy load.

     

     

    Inline images 1

     

    Additionally, we see that the 300Hz sine wave itself is very asymmetrical and goes further negative than positive and seems to move around DC, as if a servo feedback loop is trying to catch.

     

    This was unexpected from understanding the theory of BD modulation so perhaps it could be a side effect of the '54Ms different modulation scheme w.r.t. the '56M?

     

    We've double- and triple checked our Hybridflow tuning and programming by the microcontroller. The fact that it's reproducable even with a blank hybridflow on the eval board leads suspicion to the hardware itself.

     

    The issue is related to die core temperature as it is easier provoked after the amplifier has been running full power for a while, or at elevated power supply levels.

    We can also observe a cold amplifier behaving well until warm up, and influence the 'stable' period with the thermal mass of the cooling solution. Eventually however, this behaviour may be consistently provoked.

     

    Inline images 2

     

    When the amplifier is unloaded, the onset of clipping is symmetrical and the DC 'overshoot' is less than 20 mV, which is innocent. However, we prefer the amplifier with a nice loudspeaker as a load...

  • Thanks Josef for posting this.

    Below is a measurement of the DC part of the bridge output whilst playing a 300 Hz tone burst.

    It was recorded using the 'measurement recorder' utility on an Audio Precision APX analyzer.

    50 mV would be quite acceptable and we see about 20 when the amp is either cold or unloaded.

    I've requested some 5756M samples to see if their BD modulation behaves differently. Hoping the sample application does not get rejected as I'm seeing 13 week lead time on Farnell/Mouser.

  • Hi Josef,

    Would you upload image 1 & 2 again? Thanks.

    Andy
  • Hello Andy! Could you please review these plots? Thanks, Jeff
  • Hello! As an update, Andy is working with our design team in getting you an answer. Thanks, Jeff
  • I was able to have a quick call with our design team last night about this issue and I was told to do more tests before we have another discussion in more details. I will keep you guys posted.

  • We have some preliminary results and believe the root cause is the large swing from DAC output combined with 1SPW modulation scheme. Basically, we recommend TAS5756M (BD modulation) for high power applications.

    Beside, I would suggest you probe the SPK_INA- and SPK_INA+ pins and check whether their voltage violates the maximum ratings in the table below.  

    One thing you can try is to change the DAC gain settings from 0dB to -6dB.  Basically, the DAC_OUTA/B pin voltage will be attenuated. See the following screenshots.  

    Andy