This thread has been locked.

If you have a related question, please click the "Ask a related question" button in the top right corner. The newly created question will be automatically linked to this question.

DRV8350: C_VCP capacitance at DC bias

Part Number: DRV8350

What are the recommended limits for the capacitance of C_VCP at 0V and 10V (where it operates)? The TRM just says "1 uF 16V". I chose a capacitor meeting those recommendations, but it wasn't big enough, so I'm looking for more guidance on choosing a better one without overstressing the charge pump or causing startup problems. Also it looks like the EVM uses a 1 uF 100V capacitor, which is much larger, I'm hoping to stay with an 0603 capacitor.

I have a design using the DRV8353S driving 12x IPTG014N10NM5ATMA1 (2 in parallel on each leg). My latest version was struggling with VCP undervoltage faults when I used a CL10B105KA8NNN (1 uF 0603 25V, 0.55 uF at 10.5V). Looking at with a scope, the VCP regulator was clearly failing to maintain its output switching at 20 kHz (I forgot to even save a picture, it was never going to work). Adding a second of those capacitors seems to have addressed the problem, but that seems to be more capacitance than is recommended.

For future revisions, I found GRM188R61H225KE11. It has a 2.2 uF nominal capacitance, but it's still under 1 uF at 10V of DC bias. Would using that pose any problems?

Here's what VCP looks like with two CL10B105KA8NNN in parallel (at ~0% duty cycle, so all 3 half bridges are switching at almost the same time, which should be the worst case):

I'm switching at 10 kHz - 20 kHz (subject to optimization, no particular requirements) with FOC (SVM, so it's switching each gate every cycle). Gate charge for each FET is 169 nC typical. This is close to the 25 mA limit on the gate drive power supplies, but it should be within it. My design is for 65V nominal motor voltage, with a 15V supply provided to VM.

  • Hi Brian,

    Have you been seeing similar behavior in your waveform on VM? Sometimes issues on VM can be passed to VCP.

    I chose a capacitor meeting those recommendations, but it wasn't big enough,

    When you say it wasn't big enough, what led you to that conclusion?

    You shouldn't exceed the recommended capacitance that is stated in the datasheet but you could exceed the voltage rating. A 1uF 25V (or higher voltage) capacitor might be able to help resolve your issue.

    Regards,

    Yara

  • I did check VM (measured at the VM capacitor next to the DRV), and it looked fine.

    VCP looked similar to my picture when switching at lower frequencies, although it took longer to recover after switching. At 20 kHz, it never recovered in between switching events, so it would steadily fall until faulting.

    Doubling up the capacitor resulted in the behavior pictured and does not have VCP undervoltage faults and makes correct-looking gate voltage waveforms, which makes me conclude it wasn't big enough.

    I can find lots of 1 uF 25V capacitors with very different effective capacitances with 10V DC bias. What value of effective capacitance is recommended?

  • Hi Brian,

    Doubling up the capacitor resulted in the behavior pictured and does not have VCP undervoltage faults and makes correct-looking gate voltage waveforms, which makes me conclude it wasn't big enough.

    So this leads me to believe that there is a chance your capacitor is derated. When a capacitor is derated it could mean that it is operating at a lower value than the rated specs (for example your 1uF capacitor might be acting as a 0.5uF capacitor), hence why doubling up on your capacitor seemed to have solved your issue because they were able to act as a large enough capacitor. Potentially the cause of your capacitor derating could be that you don't have a high enough voltage rating for your capacitor, I can not recommend anything other than a 1uF capacitor however I strongly recommend getting a high voltage rated capacitor although I'm not sure 25V would solve the issue, you might have to go high than that.

    Regards,

    Yara

  • Yes, as I stated, the capacitor has an effective capacitance of 0.55 uF at 10.5V (derated). I agree that this sounds like the problem. You're implying that I should choose a capacitor with a higher derated capacitance, but you didn't actually give me a number. Can you provide a recommended minimum derated capacitance?

  • Brian, 

    As I mentioned previously, I can not recommend anything other than a 1uF capacitor. The only thing I can recommend is a 1uF capacitor with different voltage ratings for example 1uF 25V or 1uF 100V.

    Regards,

    Yara