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BQ27441-G1: Some follow up questions regarding BQ27441-G1A/BQ27441-G1B subsitutions

Part Number: BQ27441-G1
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: BQ27411DRZR-G1B, BQSTUDIO, EV2400

Hello,

For our current design we use the BQ27411DRZR-G1A fuel gauge.  Unfortunately, this chip is now unavailable and I need to find a direct replacement. My first thought is the BQ27411DRZR-G1B.  I understand that the G1B defaults to a higher max charge voltage (4.3V) than the G1A  (4.2V) and that the CHEMID numbers are different between these two chips. 

On the TI E2E forum I have read the following:

1. The G1B can be a direct substitute for the G1A. 

2. the max voltage on both the G1A and G1B are  programmmable and I can set it to 4.2V on the G1B

3. the CHEMID is hard coded and I will not be able to change it. Therefore, the G1B could cause a reduced accuracy. 

I did some more reading and came across the BQStudio tool.  From what I understand, this tool will allow me to quantify my battery's discharge behavior and pick the appropriate CHEMID accordingly. (  "Application ReportStart Guide for BQ Products" page 11) Here I get confused because I thought the CHEMID was hard coded into the chip according to the forum response.

To give some more background information, we always used the BQ27441-G1A pretty much out of the box with only doing some minor programming: design capacity, design energy (data sheet recommended design capacity x 3.7) and termination voltage. We have will be using several types of LiPo batteries PKCell LP103450 4.2V, 2000mAh, and are considering moving to using two different parallel configurations of 3P and 5P of a Grepow 4.2V, 702430, 850mAh/cell (3P=2550mAh, 5P = 4250mAh).  With all three batteries, the BQ24711-G1A seems to perform reasonably well in determining battery SOC and health.  However, since we never used the BQStudio tool I can imagine a lot of improvement is possible.  This will need to be a longer term project.  Meanwhile:

1. Considering what I just told you about our already minimally calibrated setup, my feeling is that I can substitute the G1A with the G1B without losing too much accuracy and simply reprogram the max charge voltage setting.  Is this a correct assessment?

Long term, I assume we would benefit from getting an EVM board for the BQ27411-G1A, and the EV2400 evaluation tool to determine the correct chem id and program the fuel gauge accordingy (if this is possible).

2. Can you please explain which is correct or am I misunderstanding something?

3. What are the possible negative effects on the fuel gauge measurements of using cells in parallel that I should keep into consideration and what can I do to minimize those?

Finally, I would appreciate any other suggestions  (eg other substitutes or improvements) or any further recommendations.

Sincerely,

 

Kornelis

  • Hello Kornelis,

    1. The main difference is the chemistry ID that is preprogrammed. A loss of accuracy is very likely as a result. Max charge voltage will need to be programmed to ensure correct charging parameters are set. Check all other programmable parameters and set it to match the cells

    2. bqStudio can be used to determine and program chemistry ID. Programming ChemID is only possible on flash gauges. BQ27441-G1 is not a flash gauge and therefore ChemID is fixed (not programmable)

    3. Parallel cells are supported. Make sure to increase design capacity and capacity related parameters when adding cells in parallel.

  • Are there any fuel gauges that you can recommend as a (pin to pin) replacement for the BQ27441-G1A? 
    Would a programmable flash gauge generally be more accurate (after proper callibration) than the BQ27441-G1A?

  • A programmable flash gauge is generally more accurate because you can program the exact chemID and it has more tweakable parameters. Take a look at https://www.ti.com/product/BQ27541-V200

    However as far as i know, those are all pack side gauges where the battery is not removable, so the gauge never powers down. If the gauge loses power then those gauges are not suited for that kind of application.

    There is no pin to pin replacement for the same chemID.

  • It appears there is an other possible subsitute: the BQ27411-G1A. Although we use the BQ27441 we have a battery that can technically be disconnected, this is not done by the user as they don't have access to it.  Furthermore, the Bin pin, used to determine the presence of a battery, is tied to GND via a 10K resistor. (As is recommended in the BQ27441-G1A data sheet if it's not being used.)  Therefore, I would think we should be able to use the BQ27411-G1A as a direct pin to pin replacement for the BQ-27441-G1A and without any need for firmware changes to set design capacity, design energy, and termination voltage.  Is this correct? 

  • Hello Kornelis,

    Yes you can definitely substitute it if the conditions that it operates in will be identical to a pack side gauge.

    bq27411-G1A allows setting values in RAM just like bq27441-G1A. 

    A word of caution: The bq27411 test conditions are different because it is a pack side gauge. bq27411-G1A is a pack side gauge that has parameters normally programmed into OTP. Best to verify proper operation with your use case before using it.

  • Hi Shirish, thank you for your response. 

    A couple more questions:
    1. Just to double check: We currently only program the BQ27441-G1A via RAM. (If the ITPOR flag is read on system boot up, we (re)write battery configurations to RAM if it is HIGH.) From your answer, I understand that we could keep our firmware the exact same for the BQ27411-G1A. Is this correct?
    2. You mention test conditions between the BQ27411-G1A & BQ27441-G1A being different. What test conditions are you referring to in particular?

    Although the data sheet for the BQ27441-G1A refers to writing via OTP to NVM (c image) the reference guide for the BQ27441 (SLUUAC9A) has no mention of OTP programming but only mentions RAM and NVM. Nor does it seem to dive into how to program the Bq27441s NVM.

    3. Does the BQ27441 provide the option to change parameters via OTP NVM? If so, how?
    4. If the answer to the last question is no, is there another type of NVM on the BQ27441-G1A
    that is directly programmable by the host? If so, how?
    5. It appears the only way to access NVM on the BQ27411 is by setting the PROG pin to 7V4. Is this correct?

  • BQ27441 data sheet

    BQ27441 Reference Guide

    BQ27411-G1A Reference Guide

  • Hello Kornelis,

    1. I believe that the commands are the same in both products. In that case no firmware changes would be required. I would recommend that you double check that all commands being used are the same.

    2. System side gauges are tested with battery disconnects, so that changes the test method. I would advise running tests to verify proper operation. I do not see any obvious concerns.

    3-5. OTP can be programmed but since you will have firmware programming these values, there is no point in programming OTP. The method of programming is to write to RAM and then commit those values to OTP. This requires applying the proper voltage to the PROG pin

  • "3-5. OTP can be programmed but since you will have firmware programming these values, there is no point in programming OTP. The method of programming is to write to RAM and then commit those values to OTP. This requires applying the proper voltage to the PROG pin"

    I understand that progrmming to NVM OTP irrelevant for us right now because the way the firmware is currently structured, but I'm trying to understand the difference for my own education.

    Considering the BQ27441, unlike the BQ27411, has no PROG pin, does that mean that programming to NVM is therefore not an option?  If it is possible to program NVM OTP NVM on the BQ27441, how is this done then? It's confusing because the reference guide and data sheet suggest programming to OTP NVM is is an option for the BQ27441 as well but don't explicitly explain how.

  • Hello Kornelis,

    OTP programming is not mentioned in the bq27441 TRM, so i would assume that the option is not available for the user.

    I hope i understood correctly - that you want to to switch from bq27441 to BQ27411

    bq27441 has GPOUT and BQ27411 has PROG pin instead

  • Yes, we're switching to the BQ27411 but wanted to get a better understanding as I might want to use the BQ27441 for another project in the future.  Appreciate all the help.  Thank you!