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TPS25982: Start-up with High Output Capacitance

Part Number: TPS25982

Hello,

We are using TPS259827ONRGER in our product and discovered some problems recently when it started with high output capacitance. The following is schematics of eFuse in our design. An MCU receives Power Good signal and sends ENABLE signal to the eFuse. Current limit is set at  7.92A, output slew rate is set its fastest value by making Cdv/dt not populated on the board. Voltage of VIN and VOUT of eFuse can be 5V, 12V and 24V. The start-up problem is discovered when voltage is 24V.

Output power from eFuse in our product is used as power supply to other products from users. The following image shows an example of the application. An individual load can have 220uF input capacitor and around 0.5A in stable condition (probably the start-up current is lower, but there is still some load current during start-up). Users may connect 8 loads, or even more, in parallel to the output of eFuse in our product, which will create a huge output capacitance to the eFuse. In reality, users could use different load with even higher input capacitance, which is something out of our control.

According to section 9.2.2.5 of TPS25982 datasheet, PD(STARTUP) = PD(INRUSH) + PD(LOAD). In order to make PD(INRUSH) lower, a relatively big Cdv/dt should be used to slow the output slew rate. But the PD(LOAD) is only decided by the voltage and load current. In order to make the start-up time shorter than "Time to Thermal Shutdown" in Figure 53, a small Cdv/dt (even without Cdv/dt) should be used to make output slew rate as fast as possible. So, it seems we need to trade off between PD(INRUSH) and PD(LOAD). We decided to not use Cdv/dt to achieve highest output slew rate. Some attempts to slow the slew rate failed probably because of the load current during start-up.

Our test with 4 loads (as mentioned above) shows a 14.7A inrush current, which makes the PD(INRUSH) to around 176W. Here is the waveform of the test.

We tried several approaches to solve the problem, unfortunately, non of them are perfect yet.

(1) We tried to modify the circuit so that eFuse works under indefinite auto-retry mode with minimum retry interval as mentioned in the application report SLVAED9. But the retry is not fast enough. According to the datasheet, the retry timer only starts once device cools down.

(2) We tried to make MCU create multiple fast ENABLE pulses to eFuse. It could successfully bring up the output voltage to 24V with 4 loads connected. However, it still failed when more loads were connected.

(3) We tried to add an inductor in series at the power input of each load in order to limit the inrush current. The inductor is PA4344.223NLT (22uH/12A), but it seems the inductor can hardly lower the inrush current, the measured inrush current was still above 14A. In this test, we just pulled EN signal HIGH once, not multiple EN pulses. Here are block diagram of this test and measured waveform.

(4) We replaced the inductor with a NTC - B57234S0100M051 (10 Ohm). It worked with 4 loads connected, but again it failed when more loads were connected. Oddly enough, no matter how many loads were connected, the inrush current was reduced to around 5.5A, but the eFuse could only bring up 4 loads at most. Here are the measured waveforms with 4 loads and 8 loads respectively.

(5) We also tried another approach with a combination of resistor and diode to limit the inrush current as shown below, but without any luck.

After all these tests, we want to know:

(1) Is there any information we missed when using this eFuse chip?

(2) Is there any other ways we can use to make eFuse work with high output capacitance.

Thank you!

  • Hi Michael,

    When you are testing how much total cap load is there? are you applying CR or CC load also?

    Why have you kept dvdt open?

    Regards

    Kunal Goel

  • Hi Kunal,

    In my test, each load has 220uF total input capacitance. I tested two scenarios. One is with four loads connected in parallel at eFuse output, the total output capacitance to eFuse is 880uF. The other is with 8 loads connected in parallel at eFuse output, the total output capacitance to eFuse is 1760uF.

    In our test before, I also tried to use an electronic loader in CR and CC mode. We abandoned to use electronic loader later because we found its affect to eFuse during start-up was quite different than what happened in real application. For example, in CC mode, the loader will always draw a constant current during start-up, while in real application, the current is different during start-up and after the load is in stable condition. It was also found that the electronic loader behaved quite different in CR mode than a real resistor.

    Regarding the dvdt capacitor, we found it could cause some problem when VIN was 24V and eFuse started with a load connected. The PD(LOAD) is relatively high in this case. In order to make the eFuse output power (24V) rising time shorter than "thermal shutdown" time, we removed capacitor on dvdt pin to achieve the fastest slew rate at eFuse output.

    In our test to solve this eFuse start-up issue, we also tried to use different capacitors on dvdt pin, but it still couldn't bring up the eFuse.

  • Hi Michael,

    You are right. CC or CR load will not give correct picture as actual load will have some turn on voltage and will not draw current when VOUT is zero. Do you have some idea about the load current profile with time during startup of eFuse like is it some DC-DC load(CP load)? Can you test with real load?

    For only capacitive load of 1760uF and 24V you need to have a dvdt cap greater than 60nF. How much high did you go with cap?

    There is design calculator on product web page that helps in calculating dvdt cap for successful startup.

    Regards

    Kunal Goel

  • Hi Kunal,

    For the load board, it is a little bit complicated. Load board is not part of our product, it is designed or bought by users. Input capacitance (output capacitance of eFuse in our product actually) of the load board can be lower or higher than 220uF. Basically, we don't have any control of what type of load board users will use in their application.

    The load boards used in our test are a real load (they are sent from one of our users). It has 24V to 5V converter on the board, with 220uF input capacitance totally. When the input voltage (output voltage of eFuse in our product) rises above 5V, we noticed that the load current increased somehow. Probably because the DC/DC converter begins to work at that point, and all 5V circuit makes the current consumption higher from that time. That is the reason I believe we will not only involve PD(INRUSH) during start-up, but PD(LOAD) as well.

    In our test, we tried 1000pF, 3300pF, 4700pF and 6800pF on dvdt pin, but none of them worked. We didn't try 60nF, but a quick calculation shows that a 60nF capacitor on dvdt pin will make the output slew rate at 77mV/ms. Then it will take more than 300ms for the output voltage to reach 24V. The PD(INRUSH) is around 1.6W. According to figure 53 of the datasheet, neither 1.6W power dissipation nor 300ms time to thermal shut down is shown in the curve. But I am thinking whether 300ms is too long for the output voltage to rise, in this case even PD(LOAD) is ignored.

    I tried to use TPS25982xx_Design_Calculater_RevA, but I found when the VIN was set at 24V and Cout was set at 1760uF, no matter how I changed other characteristics, it always showed that the system would not have a glitch-free start-up.

    Best Regards!

    Michael

  • Hi Michael,

    I think we have to put some number on load power consumption during startup because dvdt cap will be calculated based on that. As we don't know what will be load so dvdt cap will also have to change from one customer requirement to another. The real load that you are using for testing is kind of constant power load , due you know power consumption for it?

    60nF cap will only help with capacitive load. Since other load is also there then we have to find out a lower value of dvdt cap. 

    One solution is to parallel two TPS25982 devices to divide thermal stress during startup. 

    Regards

    Kunal Goel

  • Hi Kunal,

    The max current of each load board (in our test) under stable condition is 0.5A, so the total current of 8 load boards is around 4A at most. But again, the board from other users could be quite different from that.

    Technically, using multiple eFuse chips could be a solution, but I am afraid it will occupy too much PCB space and increase BOM cost significantly. (one of our products has already used 16 pcs of TPS259827)

    I am wondering if you know:

    (1) Is there a maximum value of output capacitance for TPS25982 eFuse?

    (2) Is there any ways (other than inductor and NTC) to limit inrush current and can successfully bring the eFuse with huge output capacitance?

    Thank you!

    Michael

  • Hi Michael,

    1. There is no limit on output cap as long as there is no other load. You can keep increasing dvdt cap to get successful startup. But when high load other than cap is present then it may become difficult to start eFuse.

    2. I think what we can do is put a resistor in parallel to eFuse and connect VOUT to EN pin using resistor divider of threshold around 12V. But this way resistor will be doing inrush protection. But after VOUT is 12V then eFuse will be on and providing other protections. 

    Regards

    Kunal Goel

  • Hi Kunal,

    I think we probably need to think of some other ways to solve the problem. Our product works with input voltage of 5V, 12V and 24V, though the start-up issue happens when VIN is 24V.

    Thanks anyway for your suggestion.

    Best Regards!

    Michael