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BQ51050B: BQ51050 No charging, OUT not turning on.

Part Number: BQ51050B
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: BQ51013,
We have designed a receiver board (schematics included for the QI related portions) originally was tested with default values for Rilim and Rterm but later went with values from this post https://e2e.ti.com/support/power-management-group/power-management/f/power-management-forum/1096183/bq51050b-resistor-values-for-bq51050brhl?tisearch=e2e-quicksearch&keymatch=BQ51050b, as our requirements were similar.



I performed tests using an 18650 cell as well as the simple battery emulator referenced in the design guide for this IC. (2 power resistors, a diode, and a shunt) We are testing 3 different coils, with specific C1 and C2 values that were calculated for each. We are using an Anker PowerWave pad for the TX and our custom PCB for the RX (very compact design)
*update* Just received a TYLT Vu-Solo TX to re-test with. AC2 voltage is usually between 8 and 20V. Rect does at times seem low and is even under the 2.7V which to my understanding means that it will not try to communicate or adjust the voltage to just over battery voltage before enabling OUT. I have managed to get rect above 2.7V (about 3V with 42.2K ROS attached using our larger more standard sized coil and 20Vp-p on AC2) This was with Term resistor and our larger battery cap removed. With this test I see a ping every 500ms, and rect tapers off after the ping, which lasts about 100ms, with another transmitter I get the same behavior but a longer ping of about 200ms. Out never turns on, rect voltage is not moving and I don't see any apparent communication. I've tried adjusting the COMM capps from .022 to .033 and .046 Uf. with no difference. I did however see some movement with ROS resistor removed. In that case I saw the Rect voltage climb as the AC2 voltage changed (became lower) and it held steady just above battery voltage but there was no output or indication on the TX or RX of a proper connection. Without the battery (I know it won't work without the battery) the Charge LED will blink dimly. With the battery though there is no light on the LED at any point. I have also tried adjusting RFOD from 200 to 220 to 435 ohms. The Anker Transmitter with the coil placed on top or even hovering slightly above when in the middle does flash it's LED which according to the manual is an FOD issue. The Temperature sensing is disabled with a 10K resistor to ground. We do not use wired charging and EN2 is left floating (I've read this should be OK, let me know if I am wrong)

I also just received a decade box to attempt to adjust the RFOD resistor. I noticed I could get the blinking on the Anker transmitter to stop and also raise the Rect voltage by increasing ROS, I still don't see output though.
Coil details:

 Large Sensor Coil: 26.565uH ~21mm
	 R = 0.89 Ohm
	 
	 95nF = C1 (.047uF + .033uF + .015uF)
	 1nf = C2	(820pF + 180pF)
 
 Small Sensor Coil: 12.48uH ~17mm
	 R = 0.32 Ohm
	 
	 203nF = C1 (.15uF + .039uF + .015uF)
	 2.1nF = C2 (.0018uF +  330pF) 
 
 Other(standard QI coil): 11.65uH ~35x45mm 
	 217nf = C1 
	 2.2nf = C2
	 
Any help or advice on what to look at next would be appreciated, I'm going to try and adjust RFOD but if anything seems out of place do let me know.
Our design is also quite compact and we would be happy to share our layout files in a non-public ticket.

Some scope captures: (let me know if/what specifically I should be trying to capture and I'll upload it)

No battery <- No battery.   
   No ROS   
 <- Normal ->    <-(?)


Most of those that had above 2.7V on Rect had ROS removed before I found I could adjust ROS to increase it. These are some of the waveforms I've been able to capture.
Thanks in advance.

  • Hello

    The attachments did not make it they should help, can you give it another try.

    A good measurement would be RECT pin at start up, see attached.

    7725.TX Start up and Comm Packets Guide.pdf



  • Scope capture on startup, configured like the PDF linked.

    The link you sent was for the BQ51013, which i know is similar but does the vRect pin need to hit 7V? I see that in the datasheet it needs to be over 2.7 and will try to regulate just above battery voltage (for my IC which has the built in battery charging circuit). Or are we still expecting a jump to 7V?

    While running:

    Messing with ROS:

    Increasing ROS I can get up to 3.75V without FOD issue. 3.91V with FOD issues and ROS near 500K. but then it's just a straight line more or less.

    -Daniel Mesiti.

  • What is the best method for uploading images?

    I have used "drag and drop" to attach files.

    The link you sent was for the BQ51013, which i know is similar but does the vRect pin need to hit 7V?

    Yes, at start up the system will command TX operating point to hit 7V at RECT pin.

    I see that in the datasheet it needs to be over 2.7

    To start and reply to TX the voltage at RECT needs to be above 2.7V.  RX will identify itself to the TX the begin sending Control Error Packets to change operating point of TX.  Target is 7V.

  • This 7V I'm looking for on Rect should only happen on startup correct? I'm just a bit confused as I didn't see any mention of 7v in the datasheet for the BQ51050B on Rect.


    I updated the above reply with the images now included in the post.

    If my Rect voltage is over 2.7 but not rising, or not rising much above battery voltage what could possible causes be? Or where is the best place to start looking.

    Thanks.

    -Daniel Mesiti.

  • Hi Daniel 

    This looks like a start up problem. I have copied the above scope capture.

    We see a couple of things:

    1.) The TX is ping every 500ms for 80ms, this is the standard digital ping when it is not getting any response from the RX.  Does not see RX.

    2.) RECT voltage looks like it is getting high enough to start but cannot see any reply packets riding on RECT.  Can double check by looking at COMM1 or COMM2 to check for reply packets, is RX not sending them or if send does the TX not hear them. 

  • I had 33nF caps on COMM for the last few tests. I tested in circuit just to see, the Comm1 Cap read out at ~350nf in circuit while the Capacitor on Comm2 read 33.2nf, both tested normal out of circuit.

    I replaced them with the recommended 22nf and tried to get a capture of the COMM caps from the end nearest the BQ51050B pin.
    Comm1 cap (scope set to 5v) didn't move just a steady line of 400 or 600mV p-p.
    Comm2 cap had a similar waveform to the direct coil reading. pictured below is the COMM2 cap measured from the side nearest the IC pin.

    the rises fall right on the higher portion of rect waveform, before rect voltage falls off.

    I'm not sure if this is normal or what I'm looking for / should have scope set for when measuring the comm pins.

  • Hi Daniel

    What you should see on Comm1 and Comm2, IC side is a serial string of data at about 2kHz.  This will indicate the RX is waking up and trying to communicate with the TX.  The above WF and description does not sound like unit is waking up.

    To wake up the RECT need to be above 2.7V.   Also check AD pin, ground to make sure it is not causing problems. TS pin need to have a 10k resistor on it.

  • AD is grounded. EN2 is floating. TS has 10K resistor on it. So I'm not sure what to check next.


    I'll take another look at the board and see if I can get more out of the COMM pins. I have seen other waveforms before so I think it has at least tried to communicate before but clearly isn't now. I'll check everything again.

    The COMM2 capacitor is very close to the tuning capacitors, I don't imagine this is an issue, I have layout files but would prefer not to share those in a public ticket.

    I'll reply again tomorrow with anything else I can find out tonight through some additional testing.

  • To follow up, I assembled 2 more PCB's with only the QI components and saw similar results.

    However, the point you made about the RX not starting up lead me to finding an issue with our board layout so I'm going to have new PCB's made first and try again.