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TPS65987D: Switching between PP_HV1 and PP-HV2

Logi Francis

Prodigy 40 points

Part Number: TPS65987D
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: TPS65994AE, TPS65988, TPS65994, TPS65987, , TUSB320

I am thinking of using TPS65987D in my design. i will use PP_HV1 as sink path and PP_HV2 as source path. I dont have a microcontroller in my design. Can i use some GPIO in TPS65987D to switch between PP_HV1 and PP_HV2?

over 3 years ago

0 Eric Beljaars over 3 years ago

TI__Mastermind 36756 points

Hi Logi,

The TPS65987D will automatically enable the configured source path or configured sink path based on what is connected. For example, if you connect a device that needs to be charged, the TPS65987D will negotiate a PD contract as a power source and enable the configured source path (PP_HV2 in your case). You don't need to use the MCU to switch between power paths as the TPS65987D would do this automatically. I would suggest taking a look at our Configuration GUI Tool training series to get a better understanding on how to configure the TPS65987D: https://training.ti.com/tps6598x-application-customization-gui-tool-basic-introduction

Thank you,
Eric

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

Thanks Eric

In my source path i have an external power bank connected. If that power bank is not connected, will the sink path automatically get enabled?

My application as given below.

. I am connecting a USB host to a USB hub’s upstream port using a Type C cable. I have a power bank option in my USB hub.

If that power bank is connected, USB host should get charged through the USB hub. If power bank is disconnected, USB hub should be powered through USB hosts Vbus, ie USB host should source power. In both cases, USB host should be able to communicate with USB downstream ports of USB hub.

Can I use TPS65987D for this?

Regards,

Logi Francis

0 Eric Beljaars over 3 years ago in reply to Logi Francis

TI__Mastermind 36756 points

Hi Logi,

You would need to use one TPS65987D for each USB-PD port. You cannot control several ports with a single TPS65987D. Please note that the TPS65987D power paths are only enabled/disabled based on the negotiated contract of the USB-PD port. The TPS65987D power paths cannot be used independently outside of negotiated USB-PD contracts.

I hope this helps. Please let me know if further clarification is needed.

Thank you,
Eric

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

Is there any other device, which can do this job? Can i use Dual port USB-C® PD controllers like TPS65994AE for this?

Regards,

Logi Francis

0 Eric Beljaars over 3 years ago in reply to Logi Francis

TI__Mastermind 36756 points

Hi Logi,

The TPS65988 is the dual port version of the TPS65987D. This might be a more appropriate device for your application. TPS65994 is limited in application to Intel Reference Designs only.

Thank you,
Eric

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

Thanks Eric for suggestion.
TPS65988 is not available now. Is there any other device, which can do this function. Or can we use two TPS65994AE.

0 Eric Beljaars over 3 years ago in reply to Logi Francis

TI__Mastermind 36756 points

Hi Logi,

The TPS65994 will not work for this application as it does not have the ability to be configured for applications outside of Intel reference designs.

I would suggest either 2x TPS65987D or 1x TPS65988.

Thank you,
Eric

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

Hi Eric,

I will then go with 2 x TPS65987D implementation.

To confirm my understanding I have created a block diagram with what i am planning to implement. Can you please check it and let me know, whether it is ok.

0 Eric Beljaars over 3 years ago in reply to Logi Francis

TI__Mastermind 36756 points

Hi Logi,

Your block diagram looks ok in general. Only one concern: You will need some form of DC/DC converter in between the two USB-PD controllers. Here's an example highlighting why:

1. Connect a power bank to the left USB-PD connector (Power bank Type-C Connector in your drawing)

2. negotiate a PD contract with the power bank to ~20V (for example)

3. Now you need to source power on the right USB-PD connector (Host Type-C Connector in your drawing)

4. In order to be compliant, you need to be able to provide 5V first, before negotiating to a higher voltage. Additionally, the device you connect may not even want 20V that the power bank is providing. You would need a DC/DC converter to adjust the voltage to what the attached device is requesting.

I hope this helps to clarify my concern around you needing a DC/DC converter. The TPS65988EVM and TPS65987EVM both have an example for how the TPS65987D could be used to control an external DC/DC converter.

Thank you,
Eric

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

I need only 5V to charge host. Is there a way i can restrict powerbank to give only 5V at the USB negotiation itself? I have space constraint in my board and i would really want to avoid adding unnecessary DC/DC converter

0 Eric Beljaars over 3 years ago in reply to Logi Francis

TI__Mastermind 36756 points

Hi Logi,

If you'll be limiting both ports to 5V only, then you're correct. You won't need a DC/DC converter in that case.

Thank you,
Eric

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

Thanks Eric. Do we have to configure PD controller in any specific fashion to limit power bank USB port to 5V?

0 Eric Beljaars over 3 years ago in reply to Logi Francis

TI__Mastermind 36756 points

Hi Logi,

Yes, you can configure both the source & sink capabilities to be limited to 5V only. The following GUI tutorial videos walk you through how these capabilities are adjusted: https://training.ti.com/tps6598x-application-customization-gui-tool-basic-introduction

Thank you,
Eric

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

thanks Eric

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

Hi Eric,

I have a doubt in TPS6598x Application Customization Tool. In the document, it says about programming EVM. In the final board, how can I configure TPS65987 chip. I didnt understand that.

In my design, there is no microcontroller which can configure the chip.

0 Premy Varghese over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 70 points

Hello Eric,

I am Logi's colleague working on this design and have a followup query on this

There are two variants of the part TPS65987D.

TPS65987DDH is not in stock at all anywhere. TPS65987DDJ is what we can get.

1) TPS65987DDJ USB Type-C® and USB PD Controller With Integrated Power Switches For Thunderbolt 3 Devices

2) TPS65987DDH USB Type-C® and USB PD Controller with Integrated Source and Sink Power Path Supporting USB3 and Alternate Mode

Can you please help to understand if there is any concern in using the TPS65987DDJ for the application mentioned by Logi earlier?

Thanks & regards

Premy

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Premy Varghese

Prodigy 40 points

Does Fast Role swap (FRS) enabled by default in TPS65987DDJ? if not, how can we enable it.

0 Eric Beljaars over 3 years ago in reply to Logi Francis

TI__Mastermind 36756 points

Hi Logi, Premy,

TPS65987DDJ cannot be used here. The "DJ" version is only supported on TBT reference designs from Intel. The "DH" version is a general purpose PD controller which can be configured to this application.

In terms of programming, you will use the application customization GUI to configure the image that you will load onto the external SPI Flash in your system. The GUI tool will deliver a Binary file which you can load onto the SPI flash with any standard SPI tool. We typically use the Total Phase Aardvark to load the SPI Flash on non-EVM boards.

Thank you,
Eric

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

Hi Eric,

If I am using only the default configuration, can we use DJ version. What will happen when we used DJ version for general purpose application. we are not using any alternate modes (like display port, HDMI ) in our design. In that case, DJ can be used?

Unfortunately DH version is not is stock anywhere and we need to get the boards ready by this weekend. That is why we are trying to DJ version board.

0 Eric Beljaars over 3 years ago in reply to Logi Francis

TI__Mastermind 36756 points

Hi Logi,

The "DJ" version is limited in configuration to only work on designs that are directly copying an Intel reference design. It cannot be used outside of those applications.

Thank you,
Eric

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

Hi Eric,

I was planning to use tps65987d as shown below. We dont have any Embedded controller in our board. So there is no configuration planned using I2C.

In that case, can we use TPS65987DDJ?

Note: Is it possible to have a call with you to discuss this? We are in a desperate situation now. Due to timeline pressures, we worked over weekend and finshed the design and we were planning to go for fab now.

0 Eric Beljaars over 3 years ago in reply to Logi Francis

TI__Mastermind 36756 points

Hi Logi,

Unfortunately, the DJ version cannot be used for this as the firmware on the DJ version is only limited to supporting intel reference designs.

Do you have a local TI Field contact who could help with procuring DH devices?

Thank you,
Eric

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

is DH version drop in replacement for DJ version part?

Our local TI contact dont have DH version part. we found a chinese distributor with DH version stock. We are trying to get the part from them.

0 Eric Beljaars over 3 years ago in reply to Logi Francis

TI__Mastermind 36756 points

Hi Logi,

Yes, DJ and DH are pin2pin replaceable.

Thank you,
Eric

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

Thanks.

If i share our schematics, will you be able to review it and give your feedback?

Regards,

Logi Francis

0 Eric Beljaars over 3 years ago in reply to Logi Francis

TI__Mastermind 36756 points

Hi Logi,

I would suggest posting a new thread specifically for the schematic review. A member from our technical team can help to review.

Thank you,
Eric

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

Hi Eric,

i have one more question, If i keep the power bank always connected (VBUS from Power bank powering my boards circuitry and sink for Host), can the following configuration using TUSB320 work?

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

ok. I will create a new tread

0 Eric Beljaars over 3 years ago in reply to Logi Francis

TI__Mastermind 36756 points

Hi Logi,

I am not an expert on the TUSB320 device. I would suggest posting a new question with TUSB320 as the listed device so the correct expert can provide a more detailed response.

Thank you,
Eric

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

thanks Eric. I will post it in TUSB320 tread.

Appreciate your support.

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

Hi Eric,

We managed to find a source for TPS65987DDH and we got the assembled Board today. I am trying to use Application customization GUI for the configuring PD controller. In your earlier reply, you mentioned that we can load SPI flash on non EVM boards using Total phase Aardvark tool. For this, do we need to directly connect Aardwark tool to SPI lines of flash or the tool can program SPI flash through I2C lines of PD controller using the GUI application?

When i tried to flash using GUI tool, i got an error saying " "SPI Flash to Device failed verification". what could be the issue? please help

0 Eric Beljaars over 3 years ago in reply to Logi Francis

TI__Mastermind 36756 points

Hi Logi,

You will need to connect the Aardvark directly to the SPI lines of the Flash chip. Since the SPI Flash has no FW loaded by default, the PD Controller GUI tool will not be able to flash it. Instead, please use another standard SPI loading tool. Total Phase Flash Center can work for this.

Thank you,
Eric

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

Thanks Eric. we will flash it directly.

I need one more clarification. what should be our boot mode configuration? In our application VIN_3V3 will come only after PD controller switch the power rail.

0 Eric Beljaars over 3 years ago in reply to Logi Francis

TI__Mastermind 36756 points

Hi Logi,

I think BP_NoWait would be best. This would allow the PD controller to boot without VIN_3V3 and immediately load the configuration from the SPI Flash.

Thank you,
Eric

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

what about the device configuration?

0 Eric Beljaars over 3 years ago in reply to Logi Francis

TI__Mastermind 36756 points

Hi Logi,

That is up to you. If you do not require the PD controller to do anything without loading the configuration from flash, you can always leave it as "Safe Configuration" in dead battery mode.

Thank you,
Eric

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

Hi Eric,

I was able to program Host PD controller flash. it is loading programmed configuration correctly.when host is connected and power bank is connected, Host PD controller PP1 switch is correclty getting enabled and board is getting power.

But when both host and power bank is connected, board is getting powered from power bank, but PP2 switch of Host PD controller is not getting enabled.

What could be the issue? I am configuring PP1 switch as sink only and PP2 switch as Source only, as shown in the figure below

0 Eric Beljaars over 3 years ago in reply to Logi Francis

TI__Mastermind 36756 points

Hi Logi,

I would suggest also checking the Source Capabilities register of the Host PD Controller to ensure you have a 5V/3A PDO assigned to it with the correct power path.

Additionally, if you want your Host PD Controller to source power, you should adjust its port control setting "Power Swap Strategy" to be a power source. Additionally, Port Configuration should be either DFP or DRP for this port.

Thank you,
Eric

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

Thanks Eric

Once Power swap strategy changed to prefers power source, PP2 switch is getting enabled, when we connect charge bank.

0 Eric Beljaars over 3 years ago in reply to Logi Francis

TI__Mastermind 36756 points

Perfect. Thanks for confirming!

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

Hi Eric,

Yesterday i was trying with a Type C connector in my Thinkpad laptop. It has a type C port, which primarily uses Type C connector to connect to charger. But it can also be used for Data transfer. In that type C port, when we connect, it is detecting USB hub in our board.

But when i connect our board to my phone or any other android device, it is not even detecting it as USB. USB is getting connected only if we use a type C OTG connnector in between Phone and our board. Even after that, in the USB preferences it says USB is controlled by Connected Device. Ideally USB should be controlled by Android device. There is an option to change this control in the USB preferences. But when i try that it says it couldnt switch. What could be the issue?

I am also attaching the Host PD controllers GUI tool project file. Can you review the settings we are using?PD_Controller_Host_Prefers_powersource.pjt

0 Eric Beljaars over 3 years ago in reply to Logi Francis

TI__Mastermind 36756 points

Hi Logi,

I would suggest posting another thread with the full details of the issue you mentioned above. This way one of our technical experts can take a deeper look.

Thank you,
Eric

0 Logi Francis over 3 years ago in reply to Eric Beljaars

Prodigy 40 points

Thanks Eric. I have created a different thread.

https://e2e.ti.com/support/power-management-group/power-management/f/power-management-forum/1125032/tps65987d-host-pd-configuration