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LM5146-Q1: Failure to start under motor load conditions

Part Number: LM5146-Q1
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: LM5146, , CSD19534Q5A

Hey all. I've recently inherited a project from summer intern for the creation of a power distribution board based on the LM5146. I myself have not worked with switching buck converters before. The board takes in ~44V DC and contains 3 LM5146 ICs to drop that down to 24V, 19V, and 12V for various components.

The Problem
When trying to power a set of 4 motors with the 12V power supply (and this issue has been shown to occur using 1-2 motors as well), we get repeated failure of the output voltage. The image below shows the voltage response measured on an oscilloscope when starting with a single motor load supplied. However, under no load the output voltage correctly goes to 24V.

Initial Voltage Response

The result is a clicking sound coming from what I think is the filter inductor a few times per second as it repeatedly energizes and de-energizes. I tried to recreate the existing setup in the TI design tool, and while not all numbers are exactly equal they're pretty close. That result is in the image below.



What I've Tried
I looked into this a bit, and found a few resources online including the TI 3-part video series on common buck converter issues. This one seems to me to be the overcurrent protection kicking in. According to the TI design tool excel spreadsheet for the LM5146-Q1, the 590 ohm resistor that they use for R_ILIM would correspond to about 9A current limit but with a test motor connected we're only seeing about 3A inrush current so I wouldn't expect that to be an issue.

Another thing that I saw is that their soft-start time is only about 0.4ms. I thought this might be part of the inrush current problem so I soldered on a 100nF capacitor to increase the soft-start time to about 10ms (which was an interesting experience soldering a THT capacitor to an 0402 component). The oscilloscope result showed that soft-start was working, but we were still getting the same issue. 

Voltage After Soft-Start change 

Finally, since we were powering these tests with a lab-bench power supply, I set the current limit on the supply to zero, energized the system, and slowly ramped the current limit up. In this case, the motor slowly ramped up speed and eventually reached full no-load speed which drew around 0.6A. If I ramped up the current too fast the system would shut off, but if I went slowly it would work fine. So as far as I can tell, it is the current limit feature, I'm just confused about why it's kicking in at such low currents (generally around 0.7A by our testing). 

Another thing that might be useful info is that the inductor used is probably a bit too small for this application. The MSS1210-223ME, which has a 30% saturation current of 8.8A and a rated RMS current of 4.4A. However, while that would struggle with the load of all 4 motors, I wouldn't expect it to be an issue when testing with 1 motor on the 0-3A range. 

So, does anyone know what might be the issue here? Since both myself and the intern I inherited this from were new to switching regulators we're hoping that it's something obvious that someone with more experience would be able to recognize. 

  • Hi Alex,

    Can you attach your quickstart calculator, and also share the exact part number of the MOSFET you're using?

    The current limit depends on ILIM voltage and RDSON of the low-side MOSFET.

    A different RDSON will change the current limit setpoint.

    I also suggest you monitor the inductor current if you can. 

    You'd have to place a external wire loop (on the VOUT side) on the inductor that you can use a current probe on.

    Hope this helps,

    -Orlando

  • Hi Orlando, thanks for looking into this. The MOSFET is the TI CSD19534Q5A. Same for both high side and low side MOSFETs. I'll have to double check, but I don't think we have the correct probe types with our oscilloscope to measure current.
    Existing Board TI Design Tool.xlsm

  • Alex,

    It will be difficult to diagnose current limit without seeing the exact inductor current waveform.

    Can you scope and confirm the SW node waveform is a square wave at the designed frequency? The high-level should be VIN.

    Also can you share a snapshot of the layout? I'm wondering if the FET is heating up and changing RDSON more than the controller.

    -Orlando

  • Orlando,

    I confirmed that we do not have a current probe. I do have access to a 50W 2-ohm shunt resistor as well as some 0.1 ohm 2W resistors which I could attach in series between the board and the motor. I read online that shunt resistors aren't ideal for measuring inductor current, but considering it's what I have would the information still be somewhat useful?

    Also, I'm working on getting all the results you want (as well as probably monitoring EN and PGOOD) but we had an issue with a trace getting peeled off of the board from the extra soldered capacitor I attached so it might be a day or two while we get another one assembled. Just letting you know.

    In the meantime, here's the snapshot of the board layout. I'm including the overall view in case the way the three voltage regulators are connected has any impact. 

    And here's the closeup of the 24V regulator that we're having trouble with. The blue box is the inductor, the black ICs are the MOSFETS, gray is the LM5146, C1-C3 are the input capacitors and C10/C11 are the output capacitors.

  • Alex,

    The 0.1ohm current sense resistor sounds like the best way.

    Also your placement looks good, and I assume you have a GND polygon shelved, but do you have GND vias on your low-side FET or input capacitors?

    The switching current loop goes from CIN to HS-drain to LS-source back to CIN, this loop area should be small to minimize SW ringing and overshoot.

    Also please attach your normal schematic!

    https://www.ti.com/lit/an/snva803/snva803.pdf 

  • Orlando, 

    Sorry for the long delay, we only just got back the assembled board. We ran all the tests we could today, so here's an info dump of the results.

    First off, here's the schematic and board layout for the 24V buck converter module
    Schematic

    Top Layer Layout

    Bottom Layer Layout

    Now here are the tests we ran with a single motor load and 44V Vin. I'm not great with oscilloscopes, so I hope I have all the settings right. The coupling was set to AC for all tests and the oscilloscope noise rejection was enabled.

    First off, the SW pin is giving a square wave at Vin level, though the frequency wasn't stable - probably because of the system frequently restarting

    Here's the voltage on the EN pin. This might be problematic, not sure why it's centered around zero. Don't know if that has anything to do with my measurement technique

    Here's the motor current measurement. Used a 170 milliohm resistor (measured with an LCR meter, so should be pretty accurate) and this is showing the resistor voltage. Peaks at about 8.6A so definitely higher than expected, but still within spec of the board.

    Here's the inductor current. This was a bit tough to measure, so I've also attached our setup for you to check out. This got about 1V across the resistor so about 5.9A. If I'm not mistaken though we would expect the inductor current to be higher than the motor current since the output capacitors should be charging, so I'm not sure we ran this test properly.


    In the image, we flipped the coil on its side, soldered the bottom pad to the switch side of the original connection, then connected the resistor in series to the other pad, which the coil packaging is partly covering in this photo.

    Also, if the information is helpful, we would occasionally get the motor spinning correctly when powering on the power supply. Not often, maybe once out of every 5-10 times, but the circuit did occasionally work.

  • Just do DC coupling on the waveforms. Might have do just a single waveform based on trigger.

    The inductor current setup is not optimal but might be working. Please zoom in and adjust the trigger so I can see the peak current and valley current near the top. Note inductor current is a triangular waveform related to SW, ideally you can probe SW and IL at the same time.

    Whats the part number of your inductor? Are you sure the inductor has sufficient saturation current?

    -Orlando