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LM74930-Q1: Fails to activate output if input/output capacitance ratio is insufficient

Part Number: LM74930-Q1
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: LM74930Q1EVM, LM74930

Tool/software:

In a design with considerable output capacitance (3750 uF, bulk capacitance for motor drivers), the circuit fails to bring up the output voltage if the input capacitance isn't sufficiently large compared to the output capacitance.
The nFLT pin is then pulled low signalling a fault condition.

After some investigation it appears that this is triggered when V_A (common source voltage) reaches the V_A_PORR threshold and DGATE is enabled.
Up to this point the ideal diode MOSFET is conducting through the body diode and hence has a diode voltage drop across.
The effect of the ideal diode MOSFET suddenly turning on without sufficient input capacitance is that instead of pulling up the output voltage it actually pulls down the V_A voltage, dropping below V_A_PORF again and disabling the MOSFET.
At this point HGATE stops rising as well. I don't understand exactly why.

If the input capacitance is too low, it never actually manages to complete the soft start ramp and Vout never rises above V_A_PORR minus a diode drop.
If the capacitance ratio Cin/Cout is close to the limit, then it can oscillate around the V_A_POR thresholds a few times, eventually managing to get past the V_A_POR thresholds, and at this point Vout starts rising again with the expected slew rate. Afterwards everything operates normally.
If Cin is much larger than Cout, on the other hand, the startup is clean every time and Vout always rises as expected with the correct soft start delay.

This behavior was reproduced with the LM74930Q1EVM evaluation board.

Is this a known issue? Are there any mitigation measures I can implement to reduce this problem?

This is very annoying since one of the duties of the LM74930 in the system was precisely to function as inrush current limiter for the large capacitance.

Thanks in advance
Damiano

  • Hi Damanio,

    Is the input power supply in current limit? VIN might be drooping due to current limit and CIN maybe supporting the power supply.

    Please try increasing the current limit and test again.

    Regards,

    Shiven Dhir

  • The ideal diode was tested with a large power supply with current limit set to 45A, much higher than the expected inrush current value of 19A.

  • Also, when I was generally referring to input capacitance I was including the capacitance of the power supply in the consideration.

    Is there a minimum input capacitance requirement depending on the load capacitance? I couldn't find any info in the datasheet.
    Currently I have 2x 1 uF + 100 nF ceramic caps and a 10 uF film capacitor on the board.

  • Hi Damiano,

    The mentioned value of capacitance looks fine.

    Please share the startup waveforms when you see failure and when improved.

    Please probe the following signals.

    VIN,VOUT,VS,HGATE

    Regards,

    Shiven Dhir

  • This is representative of the behavior observed when the ideal diode has large Cout and struggles to turn on (but manages to do so after a couple of retries).
    Initially there is a diode drop between the rising V(A) and Vout as the ideal diode MOSFET conducts through the body diode.
    Then you can see V(A) drop when DGATE is enabled at V(A_PORR) threshold.
    Apparently V(A) then drops below V(A_PORF) and switches off again. Then the cycle repeats.

    CH1 is Vout
    CH2 is V(A) (common source voltage)
    CH3 is EN

    Further increasing Cout eventually reaches the point where the ideal diode, after repeating more cycles aroung V(A_PORx), stops retrying altogether and never manages to actually bring Vout up to Vin.

    This, on the other hand, is the behavior with lower Cout.
    V(A) doesn't drop as much and the turn on is clean.

    CH3 is Vout
    CH2 is V(A) (common source voltage)
    CH1 is EN

    These are measurements I took a while ago, as the hardware is now with the client, so I cannot do additional testing on the actual hardware, but I could try doing more measurements with the LM74930Q1EVM if needed.

  • Hi Damiano,

    It will be great if you can replicate on EVM. That will enable me to replicate it as well.

    Please probe the following signals.

    VIN,VOUT,VS,HGATE

    VA,VCAP,VS,HGATE

    Regards,

    Shiven Dhir

  • I'm out of office until Monday. I will try to do the measurements beginning of next week.

  • Okay Damiano

    Regards,

    Shiven Dhir

  • Hi Shiven,

    I did some measurements on the EVM with additional Cout capacitors, however I wasn't able to replicate the behavior seen on our board. The issue must be linked to our specific design.

    Unfortunately I cannot disclose the details publicly here. Can I contact you by email?

    Thank you
    Damiano

  • Hi Damiano,

    Please accept my friend request.

    Regards,

    Shiven Dhir