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TPS54240: CFD-compatible thermal model

user1475503
Prodigy 50 points
Part Number: TPS54240

Tool/software:

Dear E2E Design Support Team

We are,

  a printed circuit board design and manufacturing company, providing PCB design services for major automotive manufacturers,
  also undertaking simulation and analysis work as part of those projects,
  in addition, operating the website to promote broader public awareness of guidelines for conducting simulations related to printed circuit boards.

We are currently using your Back Converter IC “TPS54240DGQ” and are considering conducting thermal-fluid analysis on this device.

We have two questions:

1. Would it be possible for you to provide a thermal model that can be used in CFD? (We are using Cradle CFD by HEXAGON.)

2. We are considering creating a CFD-compatible thermal model by estimating the device geometry based on the θJA value listed in the datasheet.
Could you please let us know whether this θJA value was measured using a JEDEC standard "1s board" (2-layer without copper planes) or a "2s2p board" (4-layer with copper planes)?
If a 2s2p board (4-layer with copper planes) was used, was a ground copper plane placed on the solder side?

I would appreciate it if you could reply.

  • 0
    TI__Genius 15206 points

    Hi 


    Thanks for reaching out to us!

    user1475503 said:
    Would it be possible for you to provide a thermal model that can be used in CFD? (We are using Cradle CFD by HEXAGON.)

    We'll need NDA details to support this request. I suggest you reaching out to your regional sales contact to support this request.

    user1475503 said:
    2. We are considering creating a CFD-compatible thermal model by estimating the device geometry based on the θJA value listed in the datasheet.
    Could you please let us know whether this θJA value was measured using a JEDEC standard "1s board" (2-layer without copper planes) or a "2s2p board" (4-layer with copper planes)?
    If a 2s2p board (4-layer with copper planes) was used, was a ground copper plane placed on the solder side?

    I'll check this internally and get back to you

    Thank you

    Regards

    Onkar Bhakare

  • 0 in reply to Onkar Bhakare
    Prodigy 50 points

    Dear Onkar Bhakare,

    Thank you for your reply.

    Onkar Bhakare said:
    We'll need NDA details to support this request. I suggest you reaching out to your regional sales contact to support this request.

    We are engaged in the business of PCB design and simulation, mainly providing analysis services on a contract basis to set manufacturers.
    Due to this business model, we do not have direct transactions with trading companies, which makes it difficult for us to conclude an NDA with your company through a trading company.
    Ordinarily, it would be most appropriate for our client manufacturers to request the model from TI directly. However, this approach is not always timely.

    Onkar Bhakare said:
    I'll check this internally and get back to you

    Thank you very much, and I look forward to your reply.
    Below is the PCB routing pattern we assume is used at your company when measuring the thermal parameters.
    If you notice any errors or have any advice, we would greatly appreciate your feedback.

    Model_Calibration.pdf

    Best regards.

  • 0 in reply to user1475503
    TI__Genius 15206 points

    Hi


    user1475503 said:
    Thank you very much, and I look forward to your reply.
    Below is the PCB routing pattern we assume is used at your company when measuring the thermal parameters.
    If you notice any errors or have any advice, we would greatly appreciate your feedback.

     I am checking this with our package and thermal team. I'll get back to you once I hear from.

    Regards

    Onkar Bhakare 

  • 0 in reply to Onkar Bhakare
    TI__Genius 15206 points

    Hello Shinoda

    I checked your routing pattern with our package and thermal expert, it looks fine

    Additionally, as this device was RTM in 2010 by another product line so we are finding difficulties in confirming the size or how the ground plan was used.

    Thank you for your understanding 

    Regards

    Onkar Bhakare

  • 0 in reply to Onkar Bhakare
    Prodigy 50 points

    Dear Onkar Bhakare,

    Thank you very much for checking the routing pattern with your package and thermal expert. We truly appreciate your support.

    Regarding your comment that this device was RTM in 2010 and therefore it is difficult to confirm the exact size or ground plane usage, we fully understand that detailed historical design data may no longer be readily available.

    We assume that the thermal characterization was conducted in accordance with the JESD51 standard. However, since the measurement conditions for the thermal parameters in the datasheet are not clearly specified, we are facing significant difficulties in generating a model with sufficient justification and reliability.

    In order for us to proceed with our model adjustment in a valid manner, it is essential that we understand the actual measurement conditions. Therefore, we kindly request that you provide the following information:

    The device type and measurement conditions (currently available) under which thermal parameters were obtained, either for the same package or for a similar package.

    This information is critical for us to ensure that our model is both accurate and consistent with your characterization data.

    Thank you very much for your cooperation and continued support.

    Best regards,

  • 0 in reply to user1475503
    TI__Genius 15206 points

    Hello Shinoda


    I have requested our team to check data for other devices with similar packages, as very few devices use the DGQ (HVSSOP) package, it could be hard to get that data. I'll get back to once I hear from them.

    Thank you for your understanding.

    Regards

    Onkar Bhakare 

  • 0 in reply to Onkar Bhakare
    Prodigy 50 points

    Dear Onkar Bhakare,

    Thank you very much for checking with your team.
    We understand that it may be difficult to obtain the data for the DGQ (HVSSOP) package, and we truly appreciate your support in looking into similar devices.
    In particular, we would like to know whether the thermal characterization was conducted on a 2s2p or 1s board, and also whether the bottom layer had a ground plane.
    In addition, regarding the PDF I sent a few messages ago, if you have any observations or advice, we would greatly appreciate it.
    We look forward to your feedback.

    Best regards,