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Two inputs power sources

Other Parts Discussed in Thread: LM5050-2, TPS54260

Hi,

I need help for choosing the right components for the following power system:

Input 1: 28v DC

Input 2: 2/3 Li-Po Cells

Single output: 5v @ 2A

The solution must include an automatic power sources switch, which the 28v DC is the default source in case both power sources are 

connected. Also, all the needed protections for dealing with Li-Po 2/3 cells. I don't need a charging circuit (Gas gauge can be nice to have but its not must).   

Thanks,

Michael.

  • Your solution needs two blocks

    1) Power selection between 28V and batteries

    This can be done easily but wasting power, or with more components, and power friendly.

    It is done easily with two Schottky OR-ing diodes. The problems is the power wasted on them, specially when using the batteries.

    So a more power friendly solution is to use two "ideal" OR-ing diodes based on LM5050-2

    Power prioritization is done automatically since in the OR-ing diode scheme the higher voltage wins automatically

    2) The second stage is a buck converter with input from around 6V to 30V input to 5V@2A output. For this stage there is a huge offer of posibilities from TI, you can make the power with a controller or take an integrated module (complete solutions). I counted 49 offers on the power section:

    http://www.ti.com/paramsearch/docs/parametricsearch.tsp?family=analog&familyId=751&uiTemplateId=NODE_STRY_PGE_T#p32=1&p238min=3;7&p238max=30;75&p451max=2;5

    What I didn't understand from your questions is if you also need a battery cuttoff.

    Best regards

    Albert

  • Thanks Albert,

    I think you've resolved my issue regarding the power selection, the OR-ing seems to do the job. Thanks!

    Because I'm new to Li-Poly power, from what I've managed to understand, I need some protections to my circuit when connecting them.

    Protections from overdrawing current and cut-off voltage, to make sure the batteries and the following circuit will not be damaged. 

    Maybe only a capacitors will do the work, but still I'm not an expert in this... 

    Also,  when using DC/DC like the buck converter, it pumps the current in peaks from the batteries, so I assuming it can damage them, 

    maybe I need a special DC/DC only for the batteries. If so, it will complicate the circuit because I'll be needing now two DC/DC, one for each source and

    also to make sure each DC/DC will be turned off when the other source is selected, for saving power.

    Another problem is the efficiency, if I will use only one DC/DC converter, because the big difference between the two sources voltage, the effeciency

    will not be optimal for both them, and efficiency in my system (10W max) is critical.  

    Best Regards,

    Michael

  • Dear Michael,

    I have two questions:

    1)You said: Input 2: 2/3 Li-Po Cells,....

    I need to know, What is the voltage of this cells?

    2)You said: Also,  when using DC/DC like the buck converter, it pumps the current in peaks from the batteries, so I assuming it can damage them,
    My answer: I suppose these batteries are new, not discharged. Am I right? Other point if you design the first DC/DC converter with output at Voltage float point of these batteries all is ok.,...the picks probably do not damage the batteries.

    So, you need to make a converter to arribe to float point of the battery pack first,... after you need a second DC/DC converter with that output that you need.

    The conclusion will be that you give the required efficience at every stage of your power supply. That's all!

    Please, search at www.national.com the Battery charger and solar charger,...it is very interresting to read.

  • Hi Axel,

    Each cell has a nominal 3.7v and when it's fully charged about 4.2v. The batteries are new and fully charged. I use an external charger and don't want 

    to integrate one on my circuit. 

    1. I didn't understand why the current peaks won't damage the batteries?

    2. What is a voltage float point of the battery pack? and why should I care about it?

    3. Didn't understand the DC/DCs arrangement you suggesting and how do I solve the switching problem which I mentioned in my previous 

    message (when using more than one DC/DC converter)?

    Thanks,

    Michael. 

  • A DC/DC does not take necesarily takes peaks of current. I know Li-Po batteries and the stresses they can undergo, like the current peaks from a brushless DC motor on an air model. The current variation from a DC/DC is a child's game compared to that. Take a look at the current curves on a DC/DC and you will see how the current goes, by no means peaks as I think you imagine them.

    I don't think that you need two converters, the real sensible point here is to have a buck that is very efficient when working with the batteries.

    Protection is exercised by the converter itself, where you can limit the load current (and hence the current taken from the batteries).

    To protect the batteries from excessive consumption (voltage-wise speaking), you can use a converter with under voltage lock out. You will have to "program" the threshold for each one of the 2/3 batteries scenario.

  • Thanks Albert , it really makes sense now. 

    I think I will use the Buck-Boost converter LM25118MH it gives me the best results: 86% to 88% efficiency,

    not ideal but I don't have a better alternative, also it has the under voltage you mentioned. 

  • I am not sure that you really need a buck boost, if you allow your batteries to operate at, let's say, 3.5V min, then you would have 7V min for the 5V output, and a buck converter will be enough. I tested a design with the TPS54260 on Webench. I played with it to achieve max. efficiency, for 7V input it is always > 88%. For higher vin it is lower.

    This device features pulse skipping at light loads, delivering an excellent efficiency for almost all currents (most DC/DC eff. have a stiff drop at light loads).

    You can program the UVLO on the EN pin.