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FullChargeCapacity Changes

Jeremy51164
Intellectual 780 points

Hello,

I'm having trouble with a 4 cell pack based around the bq20z95.  Specifically, the FullChargeCapacity figure won't seem to settle.  We have tested the cells with a battery analyser and found that the capacity is a little lower than stated in the datasheet - 3.1Ah (@3A down to 2.5V, vs. 3.35Ah), but I'm more concerned that the FCC value produced by the gauge won't seem to settle.  Our application draws just under 300mA, so I would thought we would settle on around 3Ah.

As shown in the attached bmp, the FCC value does hit 3Ah for most of the discharge cycle, but after a full discharge, it seems to fall back 2.65Ah during relaxation.

Any suggestions on why this may be happening will be appreciated.  Perhaps I need to repeat the learning cycle?

Thank you,

Jeremy.

Fullscreen 6254.4NOV14.gg.txt Download 
[Header]
bq EVSW Version = 0.9.86	
DeviceName = bq20z95 v1.50
Time = 4/11/2014 8:05:56 AM	


[Voltage(1st Level Safety)]
COV Threshold = 4300
COV Time = 2
COV Recovery = 3900
COV Delta = 20
COV Temp. Hys = 10.0
POV Threshold = 17500
POV Time = 2
POV Recovery = 16000
CUV Threshold = 2500
CUV Time = 2
CUV Recovery = 2900
PUV Threshold = 10000
PUV Time = 2
PUV Recovery = 11600
[Current(1st Level Safety)]
OC (1st Tier) Chg = 2500
OC (1st Tier) Chg Time = 4
OC Chg Recovery = 200
OC (1st Tier) Dsg = 3350
OC (1st Tier) Dsg Time = 4
OC Dsg Recovery = 200
OC (2nd Tier) Chg = 3000
OC (2nd Tier) Chg Time = 2
OC (2nd Tier) Dsg = 3850
OC (2nd Tier) Dsg Time = 2
Current Recovery Time = 8
AFE OC Dsg = 03
AFE OC Dsg Time = 0F
AFE OC Dsg Recovery = 5
AFE SC Chg Cfg = 70
AFE SC Dsg Cfg = 70
AFE SC Recovery = 1
[Temperature(1st Level Safety)]
Over Temp Chg = 45.0
OT Chg Time = 2
OT Chg Recovery = 40.0
Over Temp Dsg = 60.0
OT Dsg Time = 2
OT Dsg Recovery = 55.0
[Host Comm(1st Level Safety)]
Host Watchdog Timeout = 0

[Voltage(2nd Level Safety)]
SOV Threshold = 18000
SOV Time = 5
Cell Imbalance Current = 5
Cell Imbalance Fail Voltage = 1000
Cell Imbalance Time = 5
Battery Rest Time = 1800
Min CIM-check voltage = 3000
PFIN Detect Time = 5
[Current(2nd Level Safety)]
SOC Chg = 6700
SOC Chg Time = 1
SOC Dsg = 13400
SOC Dsg Time = 1
[Temperature(2nd Level Safety)]
SOT Chg = 65.0
SOT Chg Time = 5
SOT Dsg = 75.0
SOT Dsg Time = 5
Open Thermistor = -33.3
Open Time = 0
[FET Verification(2nd Level Safety)]
FET Fail Limit = 20
FET Fail Time = 5
[AFE Verification(2nd Level Safety)]
AFE Check Time = 0
AFE Fail Limit = 10
AFE Fail Recovery Time = 20
AFE Init Retry Limit = 6
AFE Init Limit = 20
[Fuse Verification(2nd Level Safety)]
Fuse Fail Limit = 2
Fuse Fail Time = 0

[Charge Inhibit Cfg(Charge Control)]
Chg Inhibit Temp Low = 11.0
Chg Inhibit Temp High = 44.0
Temp Hys = 1.0
[Pre-Charge Cfg(Charge Control)]
Pre-chg Current = 256
Pre-chg Temp = 12.0
Pre-chg Voltage = 3000
Recovery Voltage = 3100
[Fast Charge Cfg(Charge Control)]
Fast Charge Current = 2304
Charging Voltage = 16800
Delta Temp = 5.0
Suspend Low Temp = 10.0
Suspend High Temp = 45.0
[Pulse Charge Cfg(Charge Control)]
Turn ON Voltage = 4150
Turn OFF Voltage = 4250
Max ON Pulse Time = 60.00
Min OFF Pulse Time = 0.00
Max OFF Voltage = 4270
[Termination Cfg.(Charge Control)]
Maintenance Current = 0
Taper Current = 128
Taper Voltage = 300
Current Taper Window = 40
TCA Set % = -1
TCA Clear % = 95
FC Set % = -1
FC Clear % = 98
[Cell Balancing Cfg(Charge Control)]
Min Cell Deviation = 1750
[Charging Faults(Charge Control)]
Over Charging Voltage = 500
Over Charging Volt Time = 2
Over Charging Current = 500
Over Charging Curr Time = 2
Over Charging Curr Recov = 100
Depleted Voltage = 10000
Depleted Voltage Time = 2
Depleted Recovery = 10500
Over Charge Capacity = 335
Over Charge Recovery = 2
FC-MTO = 10800
PC-MTO = 3600
Charge Fault Cfg = 00

[Data(SBS Configuration)]
Rem Cap Alarm = 335
Rem Energy Alarm = 4820
Rem Time Alarm = 10
Init Battery Mode = 0081
Design Voltage = 14400
Spec Info = 0031
Manuf Date = 01-Jul-2014
Ser. Num. = 0001
Cycle Count = 5
CC Threshold = 3015
CC % = 90
CF MaxError Limit = 100
Design Capacity = 3350
Design Energy = 48230
Manuf Name = TD
Device Name = bq20z95
Device Chemistry = LION
[Configuration(SBS Configuration)]
TDA Set % = 6
TDA Clear % = 8
FD Set % = 2
FD Clear % = 5
TDA Set Volt Threshold = 5000
TDA Set Volt Time = 5
TDA Clear Volt = 5500
FD Set Volt Threshold = 5000
FD Volt Time = 5
FD Clear Volt = 5500

[Manufacturer Data(System Data)]
Pack Lot Code = 0000
PCB Lot Code = 0000
Firmware Version = A41B
Hardware Revision = 0000
Cell Revision = 0000
[Manufacturer Info(System Data)]
Manuf. Info = 4S1P
[Lifetime Data(System Data)]
Lifetime Max Temp = 44.3
Lifetime Min Temp = 20.2
Lifetime Max Cell Voltage = 4175
Lifetime Min Cell Voltage = 1843
Lifetime Max Pack Voltage = 16681
Lifetime Min Pack Voltage = 8004
Lifetime Max Chg Current = 2253
Lifetime Max Dsg Current = -1980
Lifetime Max Chg Power = 36470
Lifetime Max Dsg Power = -26060
Life Max AvgDsg Cur = -2023
Life Max AvgDsg Pow = -2837
Lifetime Avg Temp = 23.7
[Lifetime Temp Samples(System Data)]
LT Temp Samples = 1967

[Registers(Configuration)]
Operation Cfg A = 2F29
Operation Cfg B = 6C48
Operation Cfg C = 0000
Permanent Fail Cfg = 0000
Non-Removable Cfg = 0000
[AFE(Configuration)]
AFE.State_CTL = 00

[LED Cfg(LED Support)]
LED Flash Rate = 2.000
LED Blink Rate = 1.000
LED Delay = 48.8
LED Hold Time = 4
CHG Flash Alarm = 10
CHG Thresh 1 = 0
CHG Thresh 2 = 20
CHG Thresh 3 = 40
CHG Thresh 4 = 60
CHG Thresh 5 = 80
DSG Flash Alarm = 10
DSG Thresh 1 = 0
DSG Thresh 2 = 20
DSG Thresh 3 = 40
DSG Thresh 4 = 60
DSG Thresh 5 = 80
Sink Current = 3

[Power(Power)]
Flash Update OK Voltage = 7500
Shutdown Voltage = 7000
Shutdown Time = 10
Cell Shutdown Voltage = 1750
Cell Shutdown Time = 10
Charger Present = 3000
Sleep Current = 10
Bus Low Time = 5
Cal Inhibit Temp Low = 5.0
Cal Inhibit Temp High = 45.0
Sleep Voltage Time = 5
Sleep Current Time = 20
Wake Current Reg = 00

[IT Cfg(Gas Gauging)]
Load Select = 1
Load Mode = 1
Term Voltage = 10000
User Rate-mA = 0
User Rate-mW = 0
Reserve Cap-mAh = 140
Reserve Cap-mWh = 0
[Current Thresholds(Gas Gauging)]
Dsg Current Threshold = 100
Chg Current Threshold = 50
Quit Current = 10
Dsg Relax Time = 1
Chg Relax Time = 60
[State(Gas Gauging)]
Qmax Cell 0 = 3324
Qmax Cell 1 = 3320
Qmax Cell 2 = 3320
Qmax Cell 3 = 3359
Qmax Pack = 3320
Update Status = 06
Avg I Last Run = -2023
Avg P Last Run = -2837
Delta Voltage = 0

[R_a0(Ra Table)]
Cell0 R_a flag = 0055
Cell0 R_a 0 = 221
Cell0 R_a 1 = 188
Cell0 R_a 2 = 183
Cell0 R_a 3 = 223
Cell0 R_a 4 = 228
Cell0 R_a 5 = 190
Cell0 R_a 6 = 221
Cell0 R_a 7 = 401
Cell0 R_a 8 = 412
Cell0 R_a 9 = 579
Cell0 R_a 10 = 1071
Cell0 R_a 11 = 1695
Cell0 R_a 12 = 2672
Cell0 R_a 13 = 3682
Cell0 R_a 14 = 4667
[R_a1(Ra Table)]
Cell1 R_a flag = 0055
Cell1 R_a 0 = 223
Cell1 R_a 1 = 190
Cell1 R_a 2 = 185
Cell1 R_a 3 = 226
Cell1 R_a 4 = 230
Cell1 R_a 5 = 194
Cell1 R_a 6 = 224
Cell1 R_a 7 = 405
Cell1 R_a 8 = 421
Cell1 R_a 9 = 591
Cell1 R_a 10 = 1103
Cell1 R_a 11 = 1796
Cell1 R_a 12 = 2907
Cell1 R_a 13 = 3990
Cell1 R_a 14 = 5059
[R_a2(Ra Table)]
Cell2 R_a flag = 0055
Cell2 R_a 0 = 221
Cell2 R_a 1 = 188
Cell2 R_a 2 = 183
Cell2 R_a 3 = 226
Cell2 R_a 4 = 233
Cell2 R_a 5 = 192
Cell2 R_a 6 = 226
Cell2 R_a 7 = 413
Cell2 R_a 8 = 429
Cell2 R_a 9 = 612
Cell2 R_a 10 = 1124
Cell2 R_a 11 = 1841
Cell2 R_a 12 = 2943
Cell2 R_a 13 = 4062
Cell2 R_a 14 = 5150
[R_a3(Ra Table)]
Cell3 R_a flag = 0055
Cell3 R_a 0 = 221
Cell3 R_a 1 = 188
Cell3 R_a 2 = 183
Cell3 R_a 3 = 226
Cell3 R_a 4 = 233
Cell3 R_a 5 = 192
Cell3 R_a 6 = 226
Cell3 R_a 7 = 409
Cell3 R_a 8 = 421
Cell3 R_a 9 = 600
Cell3 R_a 10 = 1103
Cell3 R_a 11 = 1811
Cell3 R_a 12 = 2834
Cell3 R_a 13 = 3827
Cell3 R_a 14 = 4852
[R_a0x(Ra Table)]
xCell0 R_a flag = FFFF
xCell0 R_a 0 = 329
xCell0 R_a 1 = 281
xCell0 R_a 2 = 273
xCell0 R_a 3 = 375
xCell0 R_a 4 = 362
xCell0 R_a 5 = 232
xCell0 R_a 6 = 288
xCell0 R_a 7 = 457
xCell0 R_a 8 = 471
xCell0 R_a 9 = 686
xCell0 R_a 10 = 1358
xCell0 R_a 11 = 2312
xCell0 R_a 12 = 3226
xCell0 R_a 13 = 4247
xCell0 R_a 14 = 5385
[R_a1x(Ra Table)]
xCell1 R_a flag = FFFF
xCell1 R_a 0 = 329
xCell1 R_a 1 = 281
xCell1 R_a 2 = 273
xCell1 R_a 3 = 375
xCell1 R_a 4 = 362
xCell1 R_a 5 = 232
xCell1 R_a 6 = 288
xCell1 R_a 7 = 457
xCell1 R_a 8 = 471
xCell1 R_a 9 = 686
xCell1 R_a 10 = 1358
xCell1 R_a 11 = 2312
xCell1 R_a 12 = 3226
xCell1 R_a 13 = 4247
xCell1 R_a 14 = 5385
[R_a2x(Ra Table)]
xCell2 R_a flag = FFFF
xCell2 R_a 0 = 329
xCell2 R_a 1 = 281
xCell2 R_a 2 = 273
xCell2 R_a 3 = 375
xCell2 R_a 4 = 362
xCell2 R_a 5 = 232
xCell2 R_a 6 = 288
xCell2 R_a 7 = 457
xCell2 R_a 8 = 471
xCell2 R_a 9 = 686
xCell2 R_a 10 = 1358
xCell2 R_a 11 = 2312
xCell2 R_a 12 = 3226
xCell2 R_a 13 = 4247
xCell2 R_a 14 = 5385
[R_a3x(Ra Table)]
xCell3 R_a flag = FFFF
xCell3 R_a 0 = 329
xCell3 R_a 1 = 281
xCell3 R_a 2 = 273
xCell3 R_a 3 = 375
xCell3 R_a 4 = 362
xCell3 R_a 5 = 232
xCell3 R_a 6 = 288
xCell3 R_a 7 = 457
xCell3 R_a 8 = 471
xCell3 R_a 9 = 686
xCell3 R_a 10 = 1358
xCell3 R_a 11 = 2312
xCell3 R_a 12 = 3226
xCell3 R_a 13 = 4247
xCell3 R_a 14 = 5385

[Device Status Data(PF Status)]
PF Flags 1 = 0000
Fuse Flag = 00
PF Voltage = 0
PF C4 Voltage = 0
PF C3 Voltage = 0
PF C2 Voltage = 0
PF C1 Voltage = 0
PF Current = 0
PF Temperature = 0.0
PF Batt Stat = 00
PF RC-mAh = 0
PF RC-10mWh = 0
PF Chg Status = 0000
PF Safety Status = 0000
PF Flags 2 = 0000
[AFE Regs(PF Status)]
AFE Status = 00
AFE Output = 00
AFE State = 00
AFE Function = 00
AFE Cell Select = 00
AFE OLV = 00
AFE OLT = 00
AFE SCC = 00
AFE SCD = 00

[Data(Calibration)]
CC Gain = 10.396
CC Delta = 10.396
Ref Voltage = 1224.60
AFE Pack Gain = 692.14
CC Offset = -0.245
Board Offset = -24.4
Int Temp Offset = 0.0
Ext1 Temp Offset = -1.0
Ext2 Temp Offset = 0.0
[Config(Calibration)]
CC Current = 3000
Voltage Signal = 16800
Temp Signal = 298.0
CC Offset Time = 250
ADC Offset Time = 32
CC Gain Time = 250
Voltage Time = 1984
Temperature Time = 32
Cal Mode Timeout = 300
[Temp Model(Calibration)]
Ext Coef 1 = -28285
Ext Coef 2 = 20848
Ext Coef 3 = -7537
Ext Coef 4 = 401.2
Ext Min AD = 0
Ext Max Temp = 401.2
Int Coef 1 = 0
Int Coef 2 = 0
Int Coef 3 = -11136
Int Coef 4 = 575.4
Int Min AD = 0
Int Max Temp = 575.4
[Current(Calibration)]
Filter = 239
Deadband = 3
CC Deadband = 10.0

  • 0
    TI__Intellectual 2650 points

    I see a number of issue you might want to look at

    1) you have CUV and PUV set to 2500/cell and you have VTERM set to 10000.  Once CUV occurs after 2s CUV time the FETS switch off and switch off the load . You have CUV recovery set to 3000/cell so it looks like FETs turn on again when pack recovers to 12000 and then load drags cell down again so it turns off, keep repeating . You need to lower the CUV and PUV setting . At the moment the load is pulsing on and off when discharge is reached. Pulsing can creating gauging and FCC difficulties especially near Vterm.

    2) I see you have load mode 1 and load select 1. If this is a constant load current application I would recommend load mode 0 constant current instead as which might make FCC more stable

    3) you have load select 1 , so that is present averge load power , or current if you change to load mode 0. It looks like you did the original learning at 2A (2023mA/2287mW) accoriding to GG file "average I last cycle" and this value has never updated on subsequent cycles. I suspect it never updated because it updates at end of cycle in relax and with your CUV issue it may have been prevented to update properly. But these large values are adversely affecting the simulation at start of charge since it uses these figures until it does next FCC update  at first grid point around 89% SOC. If these large figures don't correct themselves after a few more cycles once you fixed the CUV issue and let the pack relax properly at VTERM then I would edit them down by a factor of 10 or so closer to your intended load. 

    Can you attache the log for  plots as I wanted to check some of the other figures when FCC jumps down near the end.

    In your testing you maybe need to look at how you are turning off the load current rather than rely on CUV action.  

  • 0 in reply to Mike Ewer
    Intellectual 780 points

    Mike,

    I'll edit the cut-outs as you suggest and do some more cycles.  Our application is actually constant power, I'm just using a constant current load for testing purposes.  I have attached the log file too.

    Thank you,

    Jeremy.

    6327.after_cal_dsg_eLoad.log

  • 0 in reply to Jeremy51164
    Intellectual 780 points

    I'll leave the safety cut-outs as they are, but I'll increase the DepletedVoltage to 10500mV and DepletedRecovery to 13500mV, which is well above the maximum relaxation (following discharge to 10000mV) voltage of around 11800mV.  I'll increase DepletedRecovery further if discharging to only 10500mV allows significantly higher relaxation voltage.

  • 0 in reply to Jeremy51164
    TI__Intellectual 2650 points

    Pay attention to Vterm as well with respect to CUV. If the part cuts off the load at VTERM then it may affect how it gauges properlt to VTERM . ie VTERM is where it wants to set SOC =0% but if it cuts off as soon as it gets there how can it properly learn that 0% point?

  • 0 in reply to Mike Ewer
    Intellectual 780 points

    Mike,

    Did you get a chance to look at the log file?  I've adjusted the Term Voltage to 12000mV, Depleted Voltage to 11000mV and Depleted Recovery to 14000mV and set CS_XCHGLV so that the DSG Fet opens when the pack is discharged to the Depleted Voltage.  Even with hours of relaxation after full discharge, the pack voltage does not exceed 1400mV, so the oscillation seen previously has been eliminated.

    With the new settings, everything appeared to be working as expected on discharge.  However, after 2 hours of relaxation following a full charge, the Full Charge Capacity jumped down again.  I also noticed that the Avg I Last Run remains at 2023mA, despite use of a 280mA discharge current.

    Perhaps I should repeat the learning cycle?

    Jeremy.

  • 0 in reply to Jeremy51164
    TI__Intellectual 2650 points

    Jeremy,

    Can you run a discharge cycle at >C/10, where C is your design capacity. So I see the design capacity is 3350 , which means you want to try a discharge current >335mA compared to the 280mA you are using. Let me know if that causes Average current last cycle to update.I think that value is also linked to the resistance table update process but that only runs for >C/10 discharge

    thanks

    Mike

  • 0 in reply to Mike Ewer
    TI__Intellectual 2650 points

    One other thing , apart from increasing discharge current to >335mA , could you also set the EVSW to export a GG file at say every 5 minute interval, I would like to be able to look at the GG file after the FCC change during relax to see if Qmax updated, asI suspect that is what triggered the FCC update

  • 0 in reply to Mike Ewer
    Intellectual 780 points

    Mike,

    I'll try again at a higher discharge rate, but it does say: "The exact rate is not critical" on page 2 of SLUA379D.

    Also, if the discharge rate needs to exceed C/5 for an update, does that mean that the gauge won't update in future as our application draws <C/5?

    Jeremy.

  • 0 in reply to Jeremy51164
    TI__Intellectual 2650 points

    Hi Jeremy,

    the min discharge rate for updating Ra tables is C/10 but unfortunately that is not really well captured in any app note. I am hoping that also will trigger update of average current last cycle. The only other factor in updating average current last cycle is relaxing sufficiently after the discharge.

    I note that your test current of 280mA is about C/12. Does that represent the load current you will see in practice?

    Mike

     

     

  • 0 in reply to Mike Ewer
    Intellectual 780 points

    Mike,

    Our application draws constant power, but I am approximating the discharge with a constant current of 280mA, around C/12.  I repeated the discharge with a 500mA load, around C/7 to trigger update of the Avg I Last Run, but unfortunately, it is still stuck on 2023mA.  Will the algorithm continue to 'relearn' throughout the life of the pack, or is there a limit to the number of times? 

    I have attached a log file and gg files collected every 5 minutes - the pack was relaxed over 5 hours after full charge and over 12 hours following discharge.

    Perhaps it's time to start from scratch again?

    Thank you,

    Jeremy.

    6683.DataFlashExport_11112014.zip

    2555.dsg_500mA.log

  • 0 in reply to Jeremy51164
    TI__Intellectual 2650 points

    I was just looking at the gg files and see that you did not get a Qmax update either , although it looked like you had had a valid OCV for Qmax  in the previous relax which you said was for 5 hours. I see the cycle count increment from 8 to 9 on this discharge, and comparing also to the earlier gg you posted last week I saw that was taken on cycle 5 . When did you make the changes to the FLASH settings, ie what cycle,  and did you give the pack a reset after you had done so ?

    I see that the Qmax updated between cycle 5 and cycle 8. I see that FCC changed from 2468 to 2465 at the start of  his cycle but then remained fixed. hence I asked if you sent a reset after the changes as I am wondering if the gauge is running correctly ?     

    Did the pack sit for an exentended relax over last weekend but then how was the previous relax for just 5 hours only

    What CHEM ID is this battery ?

    Note  I am wondering if you are in Australia as the time stamp on the log is 11/11. I suspect  I spoke to you at the Dallas Deep Dive BMS seminar two weeks ago?

     

  • 0 in reply to Mike Ewer
    Intellectual 780 points

    Mike,

    I checked the CHEM ID and discovered that I had inadvertently contaminated my Golden File with the wrong Chemistry File!  I have corrected this to CHEM ID 2012, issued a reset and done two cycles using a 500mA constant current load.  The FCC is less erratic now for the electronic load, but I am now in the process of doing a couple of cycles with the actual load, which draws around 280mA.  After the first discharge, the FCC climbed to 2947mAh, but of course, the Avg I Last Run now remains at 500mA.  Earlier in this thread you mentioned that this variable feeds into the FCC calculation.  This suggests that full gauge accuracy can only be achieved if the application draws more than C/10.  Is this correct?  Perhaps I should manually overwrite the Avg I Last Run with 280mA?

    You are correct - I'm in Australia, but unfortunately, I did not make it along to the seminar you mentioned.

    Regards,

    Jeremy.

  • 0 in reply to Jeremy51164
    Intellectual 780 points

    Mike,

    Thanks again for all your assistance!  When will the next BMS Deep Dive course run?

    Cheers,

    Jeremy

  • 0 in reply to Jeremy51164
    TI__Intellectual 2650 points

    Jeremy,

    the average current last cycle should update at the end of every cycle assuming you stop and relax for a brief moment  after discharge ends.  In some learning logs of my own I noted that it was changing almost imediately I stopped discharging.

    I am not 100% certain what happens if you dicharge at a current less than C/10, i.e. whether it still updates.

    Yes you could just edit the average current last cycle values to be what you want for a test, but obviously they should change again after next cycle.

    If C/10 is an issue let me know , we might be able to tweak it to C/12 if that would be better. 

    Load mode and load select values determine what power/current load the FCC calculation is using to predict when V Term will be reached during discharge. If you use a load select setting that is looking at the current cycle then when you first start to discharge it obviously does not have a current cycle value to use so it uses the last cycle. So if the last cycle value is higher than actual then FCC maybe get initially estimatedslightly  lower sinec IR drops will terminate discharge at Vterm sooner. However at the first grid point when FCC is updated again assuming the gauge is still discharging , and depending on your load select setting, it will start using load rate data from the current cycle.

    The Deep Dive Customer seminars happen every year in  October,

    regards

    Mike

     

     

  • 0 in reply to Mike Ewer
    Intellectual 780 points

    Thanks again Mike.  I am using Load Mode "Present Average Discharge Power" and we can tolerate reduced accuracy at the beginning of the discharge - although according toSLUU264a, the choice here has only a second-order effect on accuracy.  That being said, If you are able to supply a custom algorithm, with C/13 threshold, that would be fantastic.