This thread has been locked.

If you have a related question, please click the "Ask a related question" button in the top right corner. The newly created question will be automatically linked to this question.

LM5105 circuit troubleshooting

Other Parts Discussed in Thread: LM5105

Half bridge with LM5105, open circuit at junction of MOSFETs, With enable pin low, Vdd=12V, no HV upper MOSFET. Upper MOSFET source and gate = 7.3V. Upper MOSFET drain = 6.8V. Please see image of the circuit schematic.

The puzzle we are trying to solve: Why is 7.3 V present on HS, and therefore on HO? We believe that a disabled device should cause HO=HS, but in some cases, we see HS = 7.3 V = HO. This causes our BIT system to fail. In cases where our system does not fail, HS = 2.7 V = HO. In either circumstance, real operation appears to be unaffected. And why would a disabled driver with HV and load open, show any voltage at HS and HO other than something near 0?

 

DC brushed motor application.

Two half bridges each motor.

Each half bridge is as described earlier. LM5105 driver with a dual MOSFET. Additional external bootstrap diode.

The motor connection on each half bridge is connected to ground with a 57.6K resistor (I neglected to show this earlier).

4 motor drives , 8 half bridges.

 

The problem is associated with our Built-In Test (BIT) system. We have had no known problems with real functionality, even in the case where the issue arises.

 

BIT for the motor drives cannot be run with the motor high power applied due to the nature of the system power up and the BIT routine. BIT in this case uses a low-current “trickle” supply derived from the +12V supply (same as that supply used by the drivers) connected to the motor power bus. During BIT, alternate low and high side MOSFETS  of the full bridge are turned on, and we observe the collapse of this low-current trickle supply. If the motor is open or a MOSFET does not turn on, or if we have a shorted MOSFET, we can observe those cases.

 

The BIT trickle supply looks like the following from +12V to motor high power: Resistor, zener, blocking diode. When the high power comes up, the blocking diode is reversed biased. Otherwise with the motor bus supply disconnected, we supply a bit of current to the motor bus for BIT from +12V. At the beginning of motor drive BIT, we check the motor bus voltage, and it must be within a particular range. Working boards have the motor bus voltage around 5 V, about what simulation predicts. Our problem is that this voltage in some cases, on some boards, for some half bridges, is much too high, and we fail BIT (the drive works properly otherwise). In the cases where the voltage is too high, an upper MOSFET gate and source are at a voltage greater than the trickle voltage, the blocking diode is reversed biased, and the MOSFET body diode conducts, taking the motor bus voltage to 9 V or so. We are puzzled why the upper MOSFET gate and source are a such a voltage with the LM5105 disabled. PSpice simulations with TI’s LM5105 model show the upper MOSFET gate and source at ground in this case, which is what the equivalent circuit would predict. We also note that working  boards (that pass BIT, and drive the motor) have the upper MOSFET gate and source at about 2-3 V when not enabled, which is not expected either.

 

When we see the gate and source of an upper MOSFET near 9 V, we find that the potential at these points displays a rather low impedance. We have made the measurement with a DVM with and without a parallel 10K resistor, and the measurement does not change.

 

In one case only, we identified the half bridge at issue, and the problem resolved once the LM5105 was removed. We have not yet tested the same case with a replacement LM5105 installed. We are in the process of reworking two assemblies with replacement parts.

 

We have had cases where all is OK throughout test here, but the board fails at the customer. We’ve had cases where the customer reports failure, but we cannot repeat the issue here. We have had one case where during test, the problem appeared.

Update 15 JUN:

When the gate and source of the upper MOSFET are at approximately 2.6 V, the node impedance at the upper MOSFET source terminal is such that with a 10 K load, this node goes to about 0.5 V. Which means that the current in the 57.6K || 10K load is about 51 uA. This is approximately the current in the 57.6K resistor alone (45 uA) which is evidenced by the 2.6 V node voltage. Therefore, we believe that an approximate 2.6 V will be present normally, and is the result of the required device supply currents for the high-side-drive circuits in the device.

When  the gate and source of the upper MOSFET are > 5 V or so (we've observed 9 V here), the node impedance at the upper MOSFET source terminal is lower. In one particular case, the upper MOSFET gate and source terminals measured 5.47 V. An additional 10K load dropped this voltage only 50mV, implying a current of 636uA. This is the failure case—an increased current out the HS pin, causing an increased voltage across the 57.6K load resistor.

We have not observed an intermittent case. Once the device begins to display the higher node voltage, it's permanent. We have seen the voltage increase over use, starting at, say, 5.6V, climbing to 6-8V later. The higher voltage case shows temperature sensitivity, increasing with temperature.

Could it be the case that HS pin negative transients due to parasitic inductances cause device overstress resulting in this symptom?

 

  • Hi Tim,

    Due to the presence of leakage paths in the HS driver circuit I would expect the HS and HO pins to float up towards VCC in this situation. The important point is that the voltage differential between the HO and HS pin is zero. If the application can accept some small power loss I suggest tying the switch node to ground with a resistor maybe 100k, to pull the HO and HS pins to 0V when the IC is disabled.

    Regards

    Peter

     

  • Hi Tim,

    Is the 10K from the HO pin to ground/0V?

    Do you have some of the devices where the HO/HS voltage has crept up to the higher level and is capable of driving th 10K resistor, if so can you send them back for FA?

    If you remove the "bad" LM5105 and bias it outside the circuit does it behave the same?

    In another HB driver, we see the HS stays at some voltage between VDD and VSS. The root cause is as below.

    1, VDD=12V, HB=12V-Vf=11.3V

    2, without HV FET, HS is floating. Board level leakage current pulls low HS.

    3, due to internal HB-HS quiescent current is kind of pull high HS, HS stays at some voltage between VDD and VSS. It is balancing between HB-HS quiescent current and external leakage current.

    Here is the drawing example of UCC272xx with the internal current path.


     
        
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
     
     
     


  • -In the failure case (EN is low), a 10K resistor from HO to ground (VSS) changes the voltage at HO by about 50mV.
    -Parts are available for TI FA. Please tell me how to begin this process.
    -Because of the very small WSON (DPR) package, biasing the device outside the circuit is difficult. We also have been preserving the failed devices for FA.
  • I have been asked to look into this query.
    Could you please remove BOTH the Upper and Lower MOSFETs and re-measure the voltage on the HS pin of the driver wrt VSS ? Please also remove the 57.6K resistor between the motor node and VSS. Lets get the MOSFETs and ressitor out of the equation here. Then you pretty much have only the gate driver. Then Please compare the HS voltage for both a "passing" driver and a "failing" driver in your BIT.