This thread has been locked.

If you have a related question, please click the "Ask a related question" button in the top right corner. The newly created question will be automatically linked to this question.

LM2776: startup problem feeding V- of two op amps

Part Number: LM2776
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: TLV172, TPS60400

With LM2776 I want to feed the negative supply of two TLV172 from +3.3V. If 3.3V is fast rising everything works well but at slow rising supply the LM2776 starts too late and the current trough the op amps creates a small positive voltage at VOut of LM2776. The chip cannot start properly in this context, sometimes there ist about -1.7V with very large ripple of some kHz at VOut, in other trials there is just +0.6V (one pn drop). The forum shows several flavors of this problem (e.g. temperature dependency, other kinds of latchup problems). I tried several combinations of pump and output capacitors and to my surprise a stable circuit was established with a far too small pump capacitor of 100nF while keeping the 2.2uF at the output. This configuration starts up properly with any supply rise time and op amp activity. This solution cannot feed large currents but I think most op amp circuits are not that hungry anyway. The LM2776 works in some kind of burst mode with this solution and therefore the output ripple is a bit ugly, but finally 10uF at VOut and one additional RC filter worked for me. I have never seen this problem with other inverting charge pumps in the past. Can someone explain this effect and it's boundaries?

  • Hi Jens,

    Did you try adding a schottky diode on the output to prevent it from being pulled positive?

    We also have the TPS60400 family, which has this function built-in.  There are also variants that switch at a fixed frequency and so will give lower ripple.

  • Hi Jens,

    Were you able to do some more tests?

  • Hi Chris,

    yes, I tried a 1N5817 schottky on the output at first before I changed capacitor values. This made no difference. The solution with the reduced flying capacitor looked good but failed after 4 days of continous operation. Now there is this +0.6V at he output. Three other identical pcb's are still working.

    Yes, you are right, the TPS60400 would be better here. I didn't now this part at time of pcb development. Next pcb release I will implement them but they have different pinout and putting them into the existing boards would be an really ugly patch. The 4 boards are large and expensive, I cannot throw them away just because of this charge pump.

    I will report the solution in a week.

    Jens

  • Thanks for the update Jens.  I'll check back in next week.

  • Hi Jens,

    Any update from your testing?

  • Hi Chris,

    my 4 boards are back now for analysis. The one that failed ist the only one with 2.2uF flying cap, the three others are ok using 100nF/X7R/16V as flying cap. Last week I assumed that all 4 boards already run with 100nF, sorry for this misleading info. The failed board now is working again with the smaller cap. For my boards this issue is solved, but I still would like to understand why this is the case. This configuration can start into positive biased output, at least with a few mA out of the op amp V-.

    Jens