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IWR6843: Reporting of random Doppler points within the radar's field of view.

Part Number: IWR6843

Dear Texas Instruments Support Team,

 

We are reaching out to investigate an issue we are struggling with with our movement detection product that is based on the Texas Instruments IWR6843 chip. Despite initially functioning as expected, we have observed a concerning trend where these radar units begin to exhibit performance anomalies after a period of normal operation exceeding one month.

The core of the issue lies in the reporting of random Doppler points within the radar's field of view, which appear despite the absence of any movement. This anomaly has not affected all our deployed radars units (yet?), but we are receiving an increasing number of similar reports highlighting this issue from our customers.

Our technical team has conducted an internal investigation into potential causes, confirming that the reference 40 MHz clock maintains stable and that there is no measurable noise in the radar's power supply. At the same time there is an impression that the malfunction may be tied to the temperature. Faulty radars operate without issue while being (initially) cold, but after warming up — within a span ranging from thirty minutes to two hours — they begin to erroneously register these phantom Doppler points.

The radar's plastic housing maintains a 1.5 mm air gap from the chip to the wall and has a wall thickness of 1.5 mm, composed of an ABS and polycarbonate plastic blend. The distance from the radar's patch-antenna to the housing wall varies between approximately 1.5 to 3 mm. We are concerned that the housing walls might be influencing the antenna's tuning or causing reflections that contribute to the observed issue (?).

Our observation indicates that once a radar unit begins to malfunction in this manner, the issue persists indefinitely, suggesting a permanent degradation in performance. This pattern raises questions about whether thermal conditions could be contributing to a long-term degradation of the silicon, or if the Doppler point anomaly is a known issue that can be fixed.

Given the critical nature of this problem and its impact on our product reliability and customer satisfaction, we are eager to receive your expert analysis and recommendations on how to address this situation.

We value our partnership with Texas Instruments and are hopeful for your support in resolving this challenge. Your prompt response and any technical assistance you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

  

Thank you for your attention and cooperation.

Best regards,

Dmitry Tarnyagin

  • Hi Dmitry,

    This sounds like a calibration problem to me. Are you running periodic calibration in your application? Or did you disable it? I would recommend running it.

    This app note contains more information about calibration too to spark more investigation. Take a look at section 6.

    Best,

    Nate

  • Hi Nate,

    Thank you very much for your quick answer!!

    We will check this !

    BR Dmitry!

  • Hi,

    Calibration is done every second or every other second.

    BR Dmitry

  • Thank you!

    What does the performance degradation look like? Are the points limited to a specific region in the field of view? Or are they scattered all over. Do you have any video?

    Best,

    Nate

  • Hi,

    The corrected transcript could read as follows:"The red Doppler dots appearing in the video remain fixed in location and this behavior is consistent for this specific radar. When different radars experience the same malfunction, the dots will appear in different locations. However, these locations do not change with the radar's rotation or environmental conditions. A malfunctioning radar will consistently display the same erroneous activity at the same location.
    For this particular radar, there is a initially a single spot, but as the radar warms up, a second spot appears, located to the right of the first."

    See the attached video.

    BR Dmitry

  • Hi Per,

    Thank you for this result. What application is this for? The radar seems to detect very many points here even outside the red dots.

    Best,

    Nate

  • Hi Nathan,

    The white points you're mentioned are micro-Doppler signatures, and their appearance is normal and expected. This radar was positioned horizontally on a floor. The area within its field of view contained wooden furniture and metal objects, as well as a pitched roof made of wood, metal, and tiles. There was no movement in the area.

    When the radar displays "ghost" Doppler points, you can cover it with an ESD-safe box that absorbs microwaves. Doing so should prevent the radar from showing any white micro-Doppler points, leaving only the red or blue Doppler signatures visible.

    This radar product is used in a commercial application (details to be sent directly) and has been installed at numerous sites worldwide. Therefore, addressing this issue is critical for us.

    With best regards,
    Dmitry

  • Thank you Dmitry,

    Are you able to use our visualizer to show the issue? I apologize for all the requests, it's just difficult to diagnose the problem when I'm not familiar with the interface shown. 

    Faulty radars operate without issue while being (initially) cold, but after warming up — within a span ranging from thirty minutes to two hours — they begin to erroneously register these phantom Doppler points.

    Can we try to confirm whether the problem is due to heating? If it is, then if we run the radar for 30 min - 2 hours, immediately reset it and restart operation, I would expect that we should see the issue appear immediately after restart. Is that the case? Or does it take another 30 min-2 hours after reset for the issue to reappear again? If it does, that makes me think this could be a software issue.

    Best,

    Nate

  • Hi Nathan, 

    I will check if I can use the visualizer.

    > If it is, then if we run the radar for 30 min - 2 hours, immediately reset it and restart operation, I would expect that we should see the issue appear immediately after restart. Is that the case?

    Right, if the radar is reset when it is warm, the issue appears more or less immediately after restart. 


    With best regards,
    Dmitry

  • Hi Dmitry,

    Thank you for the extra info. Additionall - Is your application based off the out-of-box demo? Or a demo in the radar toolbox? Perhaps we can extract some related information, like a heatmap, to see if the problem is occurring in the detection chain or beforehand.

    Best,

    Nate

  • Hi Nathan,

    Thank you for your answer. I need to forward the question to the radar app team, will come back with a reply later.

    With best regards,

    Dmitry

  • From what I understand the application is not based on TI OOBD. It’s definitely based on TI SDK to drive peripherals and retrieve raw data properly. Everything above should be custom made. 

    Normally CFAR processing should be configured to filter out peaks below certain level. I will check with the third party for more details.

  • Hi Per, 

    For your debug, is the device in its commercial housing or have you removed the circuit boards from their enclosures? 

    As a side question, do you know who your FAE is? 

    Very Respectfully, 

    Blake Kisshauer

  • Hi Blake,

    It was tested both in the commercial housing and as a standalone radar board itself. Both with power supply, provided by the mother card (which encapsulates power supply and communication functions), and with a laboratory power supply. Results are mostly the same. I have an impression that the fault begins easily if the card is covered by the original enclosure, but it might be a coincidence. (The plastic cover has a 1.5 mm air gap from the chip to the wall and has a wall thickness of 1.5 mm, composed of an ABS and polycarbonate plastic blend. The distance from the radar's patch-antenna to the cover's wall varies between approximately 1.5 to 3 mm). 

  • Dmitry,

    Understood. I have a few questions for you:

    Do you know the name of your Field Applications Engineer? 

    Could you please provide an image of the symbolization on one of these units? 

    Could you please provide the junction temperature readbacks while the device is operating and showing the error? Preferably while the device is inside the enclosure and has been operating in the same ambient conditions as "in the wild".

  • This thread has been moved to email discussion. I'm closing it here.