This thread has been locked.

If you have a related question, please click the "Ask a related question" button in the top right corner. The newly created question will be automatically linked to this question.

IWR6843: Verification of PCB stripline on custom radar

Part Number: IWR6843

I'm designing a custom radar PCB heavily based on the IWR6843ISK - I was planning on pretty much copying the antenna from that board since this is more of a test design for us rather than something being designed with specific requirements in mind.

I'm aware of the different kinds of topics to discuss with the PCB manufacturer, having looked at both the Hardware Checklist as well as the 'TI mmWave Radar sensor RF PCB Design, Manufacturing and Validation Guide' (SPRACG5). That being said, I was wondering what kind of testing is to be expected with the test coupon to ensure that the board is ok?

It seems a standard offering by the PCB fab houses is to put a coupon on the panel for us and use a test device to measure the characteristic impedance and determine how close to 50 ohm it is. However, that measurement isn't being done at the antenna operating frequency of 60-64GHz. One of the manufacturers I talked to said their standard measurement was at 1GHz.

After reading a little more on the subject, I've seen that a 50-ohm microstrip can be expected to show decrease in impedance from around 1 MHz to 10 MHz and stop decreasing at about 100 MHz. If that's the case, then I suppose the 1GHz measurement would be sufficient?

Is there any reason to look for any further validation of the PCB beyond this type of testing? I understand that other manufacturing tolerances should ideally be taken into account to determine absolute limits, as discussed in section 2.3.1 of the abovementioned fabrication guide, but as I mentioned that we don't have specific antenna requirements for this design, I'm wondering if this is good enough.

  • Hello Ryan,

    One of our board experts will reply but it will likely be start of next week due to timezone differences. Thank you for your patience.

    Regards,
    John
  • Hello Ryan,

    Characteristic impedance measurement PCB fab houses at low frequency may not reveal all the manufacturing imperfections. It would act as a gross indicative number.

    Typically, Test coupon are added on the panels/boards to assess the performance of the material/board.
    And most common practice is to incorporate transmission line structure.
    In 1443/1642boost EVMs transmission line structures are added, these are meant to probe (GSG) using mmWave Probe setup.
    In the probe setup insertion loss and return loss components are measured.

    Losses depends on many different parameters as explained in spracg5 application note.

    Below are some references from Rogers Corporation you could read on high frequency care about from laminate side and fabrication guideline for the substrate materials (RO3003 & RO4835LOPRO).

    www.rogerscorp.com/.../Copper-Foils-for-High-Frequency-Circuit-Materials.pdf
    www.rogerscorp.com/.../Fabrication-Guidelines-RO4000-LoPro-Laminates.pdf
    www.rogerscorp.com/.../Fabrication-Guidelines-for-RO3000-and-RO3200-Series-High-Frequency-Circuit-Materials.pdf

    PCB etching tolerances, plating thickens, via placement tolerance, substrate thickness might affect the Antenna radiation pattern as well. It is advised to measure these parameters w.r.t to design targets once PCBs are available.

    If you are further interested, you could make Antenna coupon board as well in the panel, Where in you could drive the antenna ports through external instrumentation using Wave-guide interface or 1 mm connector interface and measure radiation patterns. This would provides any artifact in the radiation pattern due to manufacturing defects.

    Thanks and regards,
    CHETHAN KUMAR Y.B.
  • Hi Chethan

    Thanks for your response.

    I'm currently working with a few different PCB manufacturers to determine their tolerances on the various parameters that affect RF performance.

    That being said, it seems to be the case that there won't be one clear-cut supplier that can provide the best spec in every category, but rather one will have the best etch tolerance, another will have the best drill tolerance, etc.

    I'm sure it's a complicated subject, but without diving extremely deep into EM theory, are there any simulation softwares that you're aware of to help quantify some of these tradeoffs? The SPRACG5 note mentions 'RF simulators' in section 2.3.1, but I was wondering if you have any more specific recommendations.

    CHETHAN KUMAR Y.B. said:
    PCB etching tolerances, plating thickens, via placement tolerance, substrate thickness might affect the Antenna radiation pattern as well. It is advised to measure these parameters w.r.t to design targets once PCBs are available.

    How would you suggest measuring these parameters? Ask the PCB fab house to do it?

    CHETHAN KUMAR Y.B. said:
    If you are further interested, you could make Antenna coupon board as well in the panel, Where in you could drive the antenna ports through external instrumentation using Wave-guide interface or 1 mm connector interface and measure radiation patterns. This would provides any artifact in the radiation pattern due to manufacturing defects.

    I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this, could you explain further or link to some additional information on how to connect external instrumentation?

    Your support is much appreciated.

    Best,

    Ryan

  • Ryan,

    Etching tolerances, plating thickens, via placement tolerance, substrate thickness measurements are done to study the capability of the FAB houses and performed on sample basis. Some of the PCB/FAB/FA houses will have the capabilities to perform microscopic measurements and PCB cross section analysis for the above parameters. These measurements need to be compared w.r.t design target values and if it's within the tolerable limits then boards would behave as expected.

    For the other question: To decouple and study only antenna performance as opposed to device + Antenna performance, you could make a separate Antenna coupon boards. And in that board you could excite the antenna ports from external instruments which could feed CW tone at desired band of frequency. To feed the signal sources from the external instrumentation at mmWave frequency typically Wave-guides are used, these wave guides have bandwidth limitations, Hence in some cases for broadband signalling 1mm connectors/cables are used for instrument interface to coupon boards. Typically these exercises are done on new antenna configuration. In this case you are re-using the antennas from TI EVM hence, this exercise may not be needed.

    Thanks and regards,
    CHETHAN KUMAR Y.B.