• State TI Thinks Resolved
  • Locked Locked
  • Replies 29 replies
  • Answers 10 answers
  • Subscribers 31 subscribers
  • Views 4208 views
  • Users 0 members are here
Support feedback
Options
Options
Related

This thread has been locked.

If you have a related question, please click the "Ask a related question" button in the top right corner. The newly created question will be automatically linked to this question.

AWR1843: IWR1832 & IWR1442

Sam Ref
Expert 1610 points
Part Number: AWR1843
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: AWR1642, IWR1642, AWR1443, , IWR6843, AWR6843, IWR1843

Hello

·       We gathered that AWR1642 is a version of a IWR1642 that has been optimized for automotive applications.  If this is correct can you kindly send us a document that spells out the specific differences between these ICs.

·       Is AWR1842 superseding AWR1642?

·       We gathered that AWR1443 is used to generated cloud points and then AWR1642 is used to generate object information. Does this mean to generate object data we need to use both chips in series.  The 1st to generate cloud points and then the 2nd  chip takes this cloud data and our of it generate object data?

Regards

Sam

  • 0
    TI__Guru 58035 points
    Hello Sam,

    >>>We gathered that AWR1642 is a version of a IWR1642 that has been optimized for automotive applications. If this is correct can you kindly
    >>> send us a document that spells out the specific differences between these ICs.
    The AWR1642 is auto qualified (AECQ100 ). You can compare high level features between the two on these page:
    www.ti.com/.../overview.html
    www.ti.com/.../overview.html
    You can find more details in the corresponding datasheets of the devices.


    >>>· Is AWR1842 superseding AWR1642?
    AWR1843 has additional features over 1642 , like third transmitter , additional memory, HWA etc. Its intended for larger range usage compared to 1642.


    >>>· We gathered that AWR1443 is used to generated cloud points and then AWR1642 is used to generate object information.
    >>>Does this mean to generate object data we need to use both chips in series. The 1st to generate cloud points and then the 2nd
    >>>chip takes this cloud data and our of it generate object data?

    No, a single chip does all of it. Both 1443 and 1642 can generate cloud point, detected object data etc. There are few feature differences between the two devices that leads them to be used in different applications. You can compare the two on this page www.ti.com/.../overview.html

    Regards,
    Vivek
  • 0 in reply to Vivek Dham
    Expert 1610 points
    Hi Vivek
    Thank you for the clear responses.

    Further;
    - If we have 1 environment to monitor (let us say inside a vehicle where we want to count the number of people or in front of a moving platform where we want to detect obstruction) do we need only 1 radar transmitter and 1 receiver or do we need more?
    - Most of these sensors have more than one transmitter and more than one receiver. Why would we need that?
    - If more that one transmitter is activated are how can we ensure the receivers do not mix the sent signals? Do these different transmitter operate at different frequencies?

    Regards
    Sam
  • 0 in reply to Sam Ref
    TI__Guru 58035 points
    Hello Sam,
    Please find my responses below-


    >>> - If we have 1 environment to monitor (let us say inside a vehicle where we want to count the number of people or in >>>front of a moving platform where we want to detect obstruction) do we need only 1 radar transmitter and 1 receiver or
    >>>do we need more?

    It depends on your exact use case , requirements etc. but its possible to achieve some of these using a single AWR chip.

    >>> - Most of these sensors have more than one transmitter and more than one receiver. Why would we need that?
    >>> - If more that one transmitter is activated are how can we ensure the receivers do not mix the sent signals? Do >>>these different transmitter operate at different frequencies?

    Yes, multiple receivers are needed for estimating the angle of the object, this cannot be done using single Tx-Rx. More number of transmitter and receivers can help getting a better angular resolution. You can refer to the following app note to understand how this is achieved. www.ti.com/.../swra553.
    The multiple Tx can be either multiplexed in time (TDM) or in phase (BPM) .

    Regards,
    Vivek
  • 0 in reply to Vivek Dham
    Expert 1610 points

    Dear Vivek

    We have 4 specific applications and we need your support to choose for each the appropriate AWR or IWR sensor. These applications are;

    ·       We have a vehicle that carries 24 people and runs on a 2Km track inside a large factory. What we need is to count the number of people inside the vehicle. Please recommends the proper sensor.

    ·       We have a vehicle that carries 4 people and runs on a 2Km track inside a large factory. What we need is to count the number of people inside the vehicle. Please recommends the proper sensor.

    ·       For the same vehicle and the same track, we need to detect every obstacle on the track. These obstacles can be stationary or moving. The width of the track is 1.5m and the width of the vehicle is 2m.

    ·       For the same vehicle and the same track, the track sometimes turns/curves (turning radius is ~20m) and hence the detection angle of your sensor has to increase.

     

    Regards

    Sam

  • 0 in reply to Sam Ref
    TI__Guru 58035 points
    Hello Sam,
    It appears that your application seems to be in some industrial application. If that is right then in most of the above use cases you can consider IWR6843 device.
    The detection angle can be made wider by having a wide field of view antenna design , especially if the detection range you are looking is not very high.

    Regards,
    vivek
  • 0
    Expert 1610 points

    Hi Vivek

    Thank you for your reply.


    It appears that your application seems to be in some industrial application

    True...but safety is a prime issue specially our project exist in a very large (Kms long) industrial environment where there are many moving people and moving machines.....I do not see much difference from automotive applications.....  I understand that the AWR adds safety features as compared to IWR. Am I right?....if so should we use AWR6843?


    especially if the detection range you are looking is not very high.

    Do you mean high from the ground?

    If so what is your definition of high?

    Our system runs on the ground and is 3m high.


  • 0 in reply to Sam Ref
    TI__Guru 58035 points
    Hello ,
    The automotive equivalent of IWR6843 is AWR1843. But please not the key aspect is the RF frequency that these devices operate in. The AWR1843 operates in 76-81Ghz band which is limited to automotive usage. The IWR6843 operates in the 60Ghz band. You would need to analyze your use case and look at the allowed frequency of operation in your region of operation for your use case.

    >>Do you mean high from the ground?
    >>If so what is your definition of high?
    >>Our system runs on the ground and is 3m high.

    No, I meant the largest distance of the object you want to detect at any given point in time.

    Regards,
    Vivek
  • 0
    Expert 1610 points

    Hi Vivek,

    Thanks for the reply.

    IWR family has many sensors...can you please explain to us the basis upon which you selected IWR1843?

    We will buy large number of sensors...and there will be substantial development and testing time at our time...so we need to make sure that the selection of the sensor has proper basis.

    Regards

    Sam



  • 0 in reply to Sam Ref
    TI__Guru 58035 points

    Hello Sam,

    I mentioned IWR6843 (not IWR1843). The main basis was that in industrial application you may not be able to operate in 77Gz band may need 60Ghz band. Can you confirm if that is the case in your application?

    Regards,

    vivek

  • 0
    Expert 1610 points

    Hi Vivek,

    I confirm that in our application we are able to operate in the 77 GHz band.

    If we write and test code for IWR6843 can this experience be easily transferred to the AWR family?

    Regards

    Sam


  • 0 in reply to Sam Ref
    TI__Guru 58035 points
    Hello Sam,
    If 77Ghz band is what you want to use then you can use AWR1843 device. This device has 3 Tx and larger IF bandwidth (10Mhz) which enables better angular resolution and larger measurement range.

    regards,
    Vivek
  • 0
    Expert 1610 points

    Hi Vivek

    Do you recommend the same sensor for our three applications?

    Regards

    Sam



  • 0 in reply to Sam Ref
    TI__Guru 58035 points
    Hello Sam,
    Yes you can use 1843 device for all three use cases. You might have to optimize your application algorithm for each of the use cases separately.

    regards,
    Vivek
  • 0
    Expert 1610 points

    Hi Vivek,

    Same sensor for people counting inside vehicle...and obstruction detection?

    Is the 1843 capable of counting people inside a 24-passenger vehicle in a reliable manner? whether these people are standing or sitting?

    Regards

    Sam


  • Former Member
    0 Former Member in reply to Sam Ref
    Hello Sam

    If you are wanting to operate in the 77GHz band then the superset 1843 device would be suitable. Generally the code can be used on either IWR or AWR (auto qual) devices.

    Amanda
  • 0
    Expert 1610 points

    Dear Amanda

    In the past we listed three of our 3 applications (people counting in a 24-passenger vehicle, static obstacles on track & dynamic obstacles on curved track). We have been informed that 1843 can handle three of them.

    The question is; will 1843 be the ideal choice for all of them? if not what sensor would be?

    Regards

    Sam


  • Former Member
    0 Former Member in reply to Sam Ref
    Hello Sam,

    The 1843 is the superset device and will be the most capable of the 77GHz sensors. For your application requirements please refer to the example reference designs.

    www.ti.com/.../TIDEP-01000
    www.ti.com/.../TIDEP-01010

    Depending on how you implement the people counting for your passenger vehicle the current example code could be sufficient for counting up to 24 people exiting/entering a vehicle. You would need to consider your mounting to determine whether the sensor field of view covers your area of interest.

    Amanda
  • 0
    Expert 1610 points

    Hi Amanda

    Thank you for your response.

    We have not read the example yet....we will....for now the question is;

    You say "up to 24 passengers"......if for any reason the number of passengers exceed that is there any limitation that would forbid us using that sensor?... the vehicle is 24 passenger...but may be more people will get in....do we need to get another sensor? ....do we need to develop the algorithm further?

    Regards

    Sam



  • Former Member
    0 Former Member in reply to Sam Ref
    Hello Sam,

    Yes the demo code is only provided as proof of concept. You should expect that for your application and to increase robustness and performance additional algorithm development will be required. In the current demo the memory is only allocated to count up to 20 people. However this can be modified to increase the memory allocation and maximum count beyond 24.

    Amanda
  • 0
    Expert 1610 points

    Hi Amanda,

    So if we have more people (over 24) what can we do? Extra sensor that gets activated after the 1st sensor reached certain count (may be 19)?

    Regards

    Sam



  • Former Member
    0 Former Member in reply to Sam Ref
    Hello Sam,

    Please evaluate the demo and refer to the accompanying reference documents - the demo can be modified and memory can be reallocated to enable increased target count beyond 20 if that is your requirement.

    Amanda
  • 0
    Expert 1610 points

    Hi Amanda

    Last email you said beyond the count of 20 ....the limit is 24.....is that true or wrong?

    Whatever the limit is ....can we can use several sensors to increase that limit.


    Regards

    Sam


  • Former Member
    0 Former Member in reply to Sam Ref

    Hello Sam,

    Please refer to the people counting reference design linked previously which goes into detail about the capabilities of the sensor for people counting. Yes, using multiple sensors to cover additional field of view area will of course enable increased max total limit on the people count across all sensors.

    Amanda 

  • 0
    Expert 1610 points

    Amanda

    We will start looking at the literature after we know the sensor is suitable to us....and for that we talking to TI.

    We are not seeking additional field of view...we are seeking the same field...

    Assuming we will will divide our our field to several fields....is there a way to make sure what one sensor counts the sensor will not count?....In other words....will sub-dividing the field allow us maintain proper overall count?

    Regards

    Sam


  • Former Member
    0 Former Member in reply to Sam Ref
    Hello Sam,

    Yes that was the implied statement that you could sub divide the field to increase total count.
    In any case, I would recommend that you refer to the literature ASAP. The intent of the e2e support is to provide clarification on the online information or provide supplemental information not covered in the documentation. It is not to replace the primary sources of information which have already been linked.

    Amanda
  • 0
    Expert 1610 points

    Amanda

    If you are not TI Employee I would very much thank you for your previous emails....much appreciated......please do not respond further to us ...


    If you are TI employee the question is very simple;

    Can we use one or more AWR1843 sensors to count more than 30 people without developing new software....

    The answer is yes or no....

    If TI cannot answer that question I am not sure how could they sell that product as people counting tool.

    We spend tens of thousands of dollars every year on TI products.....we assume basic support like that is necessary....we have been struggling to get an answer for a week now.

    If you are in the wrong department please forward that email to the right department


    Regards

    Sam


  • Former Member
    0 Former Member in reply to Sam Ref

    Hello Sam,

    As stated in the previous replies yes it is possible to increase the max count. To be more clear, you can either

    1) Use a single sensor - this will require modification to the example source code to increase memory allocation to increase the maximum number of targets

    2) Use multiple sensors - this will require subdividing the region of interest and configuring the each sensor to only count within it's respective area.

    Please note the people counting software is provided as demo example software. The expectation is that customers will need to modify the source code for their application needs.

    Please also consider contacting your local field support to clarify any confusion about product selection or capabilities.

    Amanda

  • 0
    Expert 1610 points


    Hello Amanda

    Thanks for your answers

    Your answer remain not specific enough...if you are not the right person please refer us to the right person.

    You said earlier that the limit for one sensor is 24....please check your earlier answers....now you say it can suit our higher target of count and you have not defined that higher limit.

    In case we use multiple sensors …..sub-dividing the area is a complex issue......do you have software that would clearly define the boundaries of an area of your sensor? and make each area exclusive to one sensor?

    If exclusive sub-division is not the solution in case of multiple sensors….what is the way?

    Regards

    Sam



  • 0 in reply to Sam Ref
    TI__Guru 58035 points

    Hello Sam,

    Please understand that what TI is providing is a generic radar based sensor IC which can be used in multiple applications based on the algorithms you implement on the device. People counting is one such possible application. The exact number of people you can count will depend on multiple aspects like where you mount the sensor, the application/algo you develop etc. The application we provide is only a demo and you would have to develop on it to meet your use case. 

    Regards,

    Vivek