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TINA-TI: Tina14 not up to snuff

Don Baker
Prodigy 30 points
Part Number: TINA-TI

Tool/software:

I know this isn't Tina-TI, but still, TI should know about it.  I just paid $197 for Tina14, with an online download from designsoftware.com, and installed it on a 2023 M2 Mac mini running Sonoma 14.5.  It won't install fully using the Wineskin software that came with it, but will install under Crossover.  

Just for the halibut, I modified an old, old "Absolute Value" circuit, from page 69 of the 1963 Burr Brown "Handbook of Operational Amplifier Applications", with two diode and RC low-pass filters for attack and recovery on a single capacitor.  Pretty simple stuff.  I'm looking at several different designs, this being not the best.  

Tina files.zip

The Tina14 "Oscilloscope" tool seems to work OK, but the "Multimeter" doesn't.  I'm varying the 50 Hz source voltage from 1 Vpp down to about 20 mV pp.  In one instance, the multimeter measured a node of 38.8 V AC.  Besides that, the multimeter measures the DC voltage on the capacitor as being on the order of E-17 volt.  These are non-physical results.  When I brought this to the attention of Design Software, the online tech told me that because the multimeter is a linear device and the diode circuit is nonlinear, it won't work.  

Silly me.  In my reply, I pointed out that a sine curve is nonlinear, but undergrads still learn how to calculate RMS voltage.  

Can Texas Instruments recommend a more reliable simulation package?  One that works on MacOS?  

  • 0
    Prodigy 30 points

    But this is Tina-TI 9.3.200.277, a fresh download, installed on a 2018 Intel Mac mini w/ Sonoma 14.5 via Crossover:

    2024-07-18 prec rect-a.tsc

    Note that the "Oscilloscope" shows VF3 with a DC level of about 210 mV, and the "Multimeter" shows the same level at -2.69E-18V.  

    Gee, do you think that one of them might be wrong?  

    And yes, the middle diode pair is shorted out to make the scope traces simpler.  

    Can T.I. recommend a better circuit simulator?  

  • 0 in reply to Tatiana Smahliuk - Admin
    Prodigy 30 points

    If you will notice from the Tina files.zip, I've been doing that, and it has not resolved the issue.  I get sales answers, not engineering answers.  The spice calculation that puts a level DC voltage of about +0.21V on the Oscilloscope at VF3 should put the same voltage on the "Multimeter" at the same node, not -2.69E-18V.  That's physically impossible, and indicates a serious flaw in the program.  Also, Tina-TI 9.2.200 runs at least an order of magnitude slower in putting up the o-scope traces than 9.3.50.  This suggests a programming switch from assembly language to something like C or an interpreter.  

    Please take a closer look.  I really like the Tina GUI and have enjoyed using it for years.  But these errors producing non-physical results also reflect upon Texas Instruments.  

    Please take this more seriously.  

  • 0 in reply to Don Baker
    TI__Intellectual 870 points

    Don - I'm sorry, you are not getting the response you need. We do not support 3rd party software issues on E2E forums. I can forward this request to our team that supports TI simulation tools to check if they can recommend a different simulator. 

  • 0 in reply to Tatiana Smahliuk - Admin
    TI__Mastermind 30465 points

    Hi Don,

    You can try PSpice for TI which is also free of charge. It does not have things like an oscilloscope but it's widely used in the industry.

    -JC

  • 0 in reply to JC Zhu
    Prodigy 30 points

    Thank you, but that oscilloscope is critical to my understanding of how a circuit does or does not work.  I've found that LTSpice works on MacOS in Crossover, but not with such a good GUI as a native app.  It will take me a while to get up to speed on it.  I'd rather someone fixed Tina.  

  • 0 in reply to Tatiana Smahliuk - Admin
    Prodigy 30 points

    Thank you Tatiana.  I hope that works.  If not, as I note to JC Zhu, LTSpice works on MacOS via Crossover.  Analog Devices apparently owns and maintains LTSpice, with an emphasis on its products.  Perhaps Texas Instruments should buy Tina and do the same.  

  • 0 in reply to Don Baker
    TI__Mastermind 30465 points

    Hi Don,

    My understanding is that the oscilloscope in TINA is merely a forever-running transient simulation. You can use the standard transient simulation in any SPICE simulator (think of it as a storage oscilloscope) to achieve the same.

    -JC