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TINA/Spice/TPS2490: TINA simulation never complets

John Heitke
Prodigy 160 points
Part Number: TPS2490
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: TINA-TI,

Tool/software: TINA-TI or Spice Models

I have loaded the example simulation for the TPS2490 and have set the simulation parameters as instructed on the notes on the schematic. I have not changed any thing in the design. According to the notes on the schematic it should only take about 1 minute to run the simulation.. when I run the simulation I get a progress bar but it never moves off of zero even after 20 minutes of running. I have run the updates and am using version 9.3.150.4. Any suggestions why this does not complete?

  • 0
    TI__Genius 10370 points

    Hi  John,

    Welcome to e2e! The easiest way to design with our hotswap controllers is to use our calculator tool. This will help review and troubleshoot your design, and would greatly speed up the back-forth communication of questions we would have for information needed for the review (such as total output cap including anything connected downstream from the output node, which may not be shown on a partial schematic).

    You can find it by going to www.ti.com/hotswap ==> click on “Tools & software” ==> then click on “Hot Swap design calculator tools”

    For help on filling out the cells on the excel spreadsheet, we have video tutorials on how to fill out the hotswap design calculator spreadsheet. They explain cell by cell what each one means and how to enter the correct value. The videos are at www.ti.com/hotswap ==> Click on “Support & Training” tab.

    If you would like a detailed explanation on all of the equations and methodologies behind the calculator tool, please go to our app note at www.ti.com/hotswap ==> Click on “Technical Documents” ==> Click on “Robust Hot Swap”. It goes step by step to explain what the SOA/PLIM means and how it’s calculated.

    On another note, we recommend all designs with hot swap controller to have a TVS diode on the input of H.S. and a Schottky diode at the output of H.S. for transients. All wires have trace inductance and in the event of a hot short or severe overcurrent, those wires could produce a huge change in voltage at the input and output. I recommend the B380-13-F Schottky diode, and make sure the TVS diode clamps the voltage lower than the abs max of the device at the worst case clamping current. 

    John, once you fill out the calculator spreadsheet, feel free to attach it so that I can review it. I hope this helps :-)

    Best Regards, 

    Aramis P. Alvarez 

  • 0 in reply to Aramis P. Alvarez
    Prodigy 160 points

    Thank you for pointing out the resources for hotswap design. I have already used the spread sheet design and would now like to simulate the design to verify it. I have found one problem with the example that is provided by TI for this part. The input voltage is set to zero. Also the voltage that controls the load switch is also zero. I have set the input to 48V but am not sure what voltage to set the switch control voltage to. I am a new user to TINA and I do not understand what signal is being plotted since I do not see any probe points on the schematic. Could you help with my simulation issues or do I need to contact some one else?

  • 0 in reply to John Heitke
    TI__Genius 10370 points

    Hi John,

    When you state "The voltage that controls the load switch" and "am not sure what voltage to set the switch control voltage to", which pin are you referring to?

    When probing, usually are customers probe VIN, VOUT, VGATE, and Current In. Page 24 of the datasheet has O-Scope waveforms showing several events.

    For help getting started with TINA, please check out the Quick Start Guide app note here: http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/sbou052a/sbou052a.pdf

    Best Regards,

    Aramis P. Alvarez

  • 0 in reply to Aramis P. Alvarez
    Prodigy 160 points

    TPS2490_TRANS_ILIM_PLIM.tsc

    Here is the file that I am trying to get to run. It is located on the TINA install at C:\Program Files (x86)\DesignSoft\Tina 9 - TI\EXAMPLES\HotSwap\TPS2490.

    I am not referring to pin on the part I am referring to V2 on the simulation that controls a switch that simulates what happens when a short occurs. If you could make changes to this file and send it back so that I can load and run it that would be very helpful. It will never complete when run as the notes on the file state to set up the simulation.

    I now have learned by much trial and error that the voltage sources are piecewise sources that change V with time and the vin is suppose to go to 48V after 10uS. I did get this to run with a DC transfer but what I really want to see is the dynamic behavior.

  • 0 in reply to John Heitke
    TI__Genius 10370 points

    Hi John,

    This is probably a question that the TINA Simulation team can help with. I'm moving this thread to that forum, so that someone can help answer your question as quick as possible.

    Best Regards,

    Aramis P. Alvarez

  • 0 in reply to Aramis P. Alvarez
    TI__Mastermind 39210 points
    Hi John,

    The file ran fine for me as is on the latest TINA-TI version on the web (9.3.150.328). Can you please upgrade to this version and see if your issues still persist?
  • 0 in reply to Nikhil Gupta (Product Folder Models)
    Prodigy 160 points

    As I stated in my original post I am running 9.3.150.4 which appears to be a higher revision than yours

  • 0 in reply to John Heitke
    TI__Mastermind 39210 points
    John,

    I believe your version is 9.3.150.004. The latest version is 9.3.150.328 from Feb 2017. Have you update TINA-TI after Feb 2017?
  • 0 in reply to Nikhil Gupta (Product Folder Models)
    Prodigy 160 points
    I just ran the update and it comes back that I am up to date with no new components available. The HELP/ABOUT menu shows 9.3.150.4
  • 0 in reply to John Heitke
    TI__Mastermind 39210 points
    John,

    In order to get the latest version of the tool, you will need to re-download and install the new version of TINA-TI from the web (not update it from within the old version).

    http://www.ti.com/tool/tina-ti
  • 0 in reply to Nikhil Gupta (Product Folder Models)
    Prodigy 160 points
    I just downloaded and installed on 7-10-2017 the version that you are pointing me to. Also the design was created in June of 2011 so it should be able to run on very old versions of the software.
  • 0 in reply to John Heitke
    TI__Mastermind 39210 points
    John,

    Thanks for getting back. Did the latest version solve your problem?
  • 0 in reply to Nikhil Gupta (Product Folder Models)
    Prodigy 160 points
    I down graded to the exact version that you are using and after waiting several minutes the progress bar still shows zero percent
  • 0 in reply to Nikhil Gupta (Product Folder Models)
    Prodigy 160 points

    I have reinstalled TINA with no updates and am now at the same version as you and the simulation still never completes after waiting several minutes.

  • 0 in reply to John Heitke
    TI__Mastermind 39210 points

    Hi JOhn,

    I am not able to reproduce the simulation getting stuck in this version. It ran fine for me. However for what you want, I made some adjustments.

    1. Connected the Switch simulating the short in parallel with the 4.7ohm load.

    2. Adjusted the R5 resistor for the large current in drawn due to 48V input and 4.7ohm load

    3. The Switch controlling the short has thresholds set to 250mV for OFF and 750 mV for ON. Hence I used 0 and 1V as the levels for the V2 switch.

    You can get the desired results as is, but since the time step is not controlled, you may see some wierd transition for S2. Hence, I also adjusted the time step to 1us (from Analysis >> Set Analysis Parameters).

    Modified file and results are attached.

    TPS2490_TRANS_ILIM_PLIM-1_NG.TSC