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TINA/Spice/LMG5200: No manual for encrypted TINA models import from TI off.site! WHY!? HELP!

Andrey Andrey
Prodigy 130 points
Part Number: LMG5200
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: TINA-TI,

Tool/software: TINA-TI or Spice Models

This is taking an awful part of my work time, but I am still stuck!

TI provides some components with TINA encrypted models.

But model installation/import procedure is not described anywhere!

I found an OUTDATED manual for subcircuit(macro) import "wizzard". But it does not import TI-encrypted models, neither it import the component's symbol.

After putting the model into \Ti-Tina\SPICELIB folder manually, I can search it by search tool, but still it does not see any symbol, offering me to generate a raw box symbol.

But there is a symbol provided! At least one is in sample schematics .TSC

An no one tells me how to import it.

More! There is a manual for creating symbols from the scratch... And nothing told, how to link just created symbol to the model.

AWFUL!

JUST WHY, why for so many years, no one in TI has not created a simple step-by step manual for importing TI's own models&symbols? Just Why there are no such problems with Linear Technology products?

Lets say, I've downloaded following files from TI

LMG5200.tsc  <BINARY>
LMG5200_TRANS.LIB   <ENCRYPTED>
LMG5200_TRANS.TLD
LMG5200_TRANS.TSM  <BINARY>

What are the steps for importing the component with its original symbol?

  • 0
    TI__Intellectual 2405 points

    Hi Andrey,

    There are two quickest possible solutions to your problem right now:

    1. You can always copy the macro (component model) from reference schematic to the schematic of your design.

    2. When a *.TSM file is provide, it contains both model information as well as symbol pins information. So, in TINA-TI, simply goto Insert >> Macro... (Ctrl+M) option and point it to find *.TSM file and enter that model in your schematic.

    Just don't double click on the *.TSM file as it will show as binary file and won't open in TINA-TI. Use method 2 to insert the macro.

    Actual import procedure for any unencrypted SPICE model files is also very straight-forward. 

    1. Goto Tools >> New Macro Wizard, Select macro name and 'From file' option and point it to the model file of your interest. Follow the steps as the model creation progress to create a final *.TSM file.

    2. And then step 2 from above will help you insert the macro file in your schematic. Only catch here is, it will be box shaped symbol where you will have to edit it to decide pin locations.

    Please let me know if you have any further queries.

    Thanks!!

    Best Regards,

  • 0 in reply to Mahavir Jain
    Prodigy 130 points

    >" 1. You can always copy the macro (component model)
    A)That is awfully inconvenient B)I tried, and the pin order was wrong.
    i.e. it is not that simple to be considered as a solution.


    >"2. *.TSM file is provide, it contains both model information as well as symbol pins information"
    OMG! That simple! WHY, WHY do you keep it in secret!?

    Tried: The pin order is WRONG!  Can I trust it? See:

    .SUBCKT LMG5200_TRANS HB HI HS LI PGND AGND VCC VIN SW PARAMS: DEL_MATCH=2N
* Encrypted macro. Content can't be viewed. 
.ENDS
    But in the symbol touch-up editor:

    Still, how can I put it to library, make it available in search?


    >"Actual import procedure for any unencrypted SPICE model"
    Why doesn't it work for encrypted models? BTW, the manual is outdated, the dialog is different.

    ***    Now, lets consider the case, when .TSM is not provided, but there is LIB/TLD and a "Reference Design.tsc"(as a symbol graphics source)
    I got edited the symbol in symbol editor (copy-pasted the graphics from "Reference Design.tsc", corrected the pin order) . I saved it to DEVICES.DDB.
    I got encrypted .LIB and .TLD in /SPICELIB.
    ¿ How can I link them together, so TINA uses the symbol from DEVICES.DDB, and do not ask creating a new symbol every time ?
    Or vice-versa, put the symbol into "Spice Macros" tool-bar with the model linked?

  • 0 in reply to Andrey Andrey
    TI__Mastermind 39210 points
    Hi Andrey,

    Thanks for the valuable feedback. I understand that the process to include the latest and greatest models into TINA-TI (built in) is not straightforward. We have faced similar challenges and will look into improving this process in the future.

    The easiest way is to click on the TSC (Schematic) file. This contains the TSM file (Macro = Model + Symbol) with an application around it. This should run out of the box. Alternately, you can create a new schematic file (TSC) and import the TSM into it (Insert >> Macro) and build your own circuit around it.

    It also looks like you are new to TINA-TI. It would be benefitial to go through this short Video Training series (see below). It provides almost all the information to you to get you going.

    Can you also provide me the link to the outdated manual/document that you are referring to so we can have a look.

    Thanks,
  • 0 in reply to Nikhil Gupta (Product Folder Models)
    Prodigy 130 points

    >The easiest way is to click on the TSC (Schematic) file.

    Nikhil, sorry. But you missed the important point about incorrect(!?) pin order in symbols imported this way.

    >This should run out of the box.

    But the manual states in "alert-RED":
    "Ensure “Pin Order” matches the order in the Text SubCircuit.  If not re-arrange the pin order using the up and down arrows until the pin order is correct."

    The order is not correct when opening either TSM package, or TSC ref.design.

    WORSE! The symbol from TSC is locked from touching! I can not neither move it, nor copy it anywhere, it just like not exists the for the mouse pointer.

    >Can you also provide me the link to the outdated manual

    I figured out the problem. Seems, you are providing manuals for both TINA7 and TINA9, from the same date of edit.
    That was really confusing.


    >It also looks like you are new to TINA-TI. It would be benefitial to go through this short Video

    I've seen it. It does not cover the process of importing models with symbols from TI, which are usually encrypted.

    So, you see. I lost more than a day of my work for bumping into TINA-TI and its manuals inconsistency. It got my time, it got YOUR time. It costs my company money, and it can cost me my job.
    Why do you encrypt models, when there is no finished interface for importing such models? That is bad.
    That is called "not user friendly", and considering years of things being in the same state, it is called "ignorance".

    Luckily, I got a decrypted model, and for me, it easier to use it in Linear Technology LTspice. Why? Because it is "user-friendly". That simple.

    Now, just ask yourself, how many people select rivaling products, because they get stuck into software problems and don't have time for registering to forums?

  • 0 in reply to Andrey Andrey
    TI__Mastermind 39210 points

    Andrey,

    Once again, thanks for the valuable feedback. I found the 2 manuals - one for TINA-TI v7 and one for TINA-TI v9. I will disable the one for v7 today. Thanks for pointing this out.

    However I am not able to find this text in the manuals and the link to the manual that you mentioned in your post is not working. I would like to verify and correct this as well. Can you send me the link to the manual where you find this information?

    "But the manual states in "alert-RED":
    "Ensure “Pin Order” matches the order in the Text SubCircuit.  If not re-arrange the pin order using the up and down arrows until the pin order is correct.""

    Thanks,

     

  • 0 in reply to Nikhil Gupta (Product Folder Models)
    Prodigy 130 points

    Probably, the forum engine has damaged the long url.

    It was: http://e2e.ti.com/cfs-file/__key/communityserver-discussions-components-files/234/8726.How-to-Tina-MacroModels_5F00_revA.ppt

    So, what's going on with pins in the symbol?

    Should the order be the same as in .subckt? Or providing the same names is enough?

    And I got stuck with serious BUG. (prevents task completion)

    When editing the symbol, moving the pins, either in the project, or in the symbol database, the actual invisible pin connection point separates from the pin red-cross image. From that point the symbol becomes unusable.

    TINA Version 9.3.150.328 SF-TI

    Windows 7 x64, font scaling DPI is 100%(no scaling).

    I am getting really annoyed with these problems. Now, it appeared, decrypted model fails in LTspice. It does not tolerate minor glitches. BTW,  LMG5200 model fails in TINA when starting with finding operating point. Anyway, in order to solve it I am moving back to TINA again. I need good replacement for LT1712 from TI.

  • 0 in reply to Andrey Andrey
    TI__Mastermind 39210 points
    Andrew,

    This is a fairly old presentation (from 2006). Since then many enhancements have been made to TINA-TI. You do not need to do pin mapping yourself or editing of the symbol. All this is already done in the TSM file on the web (which is also used in the TSC file). www.ti.com/.../toolssoftware Can you simply use the TSC file on the web and modify it for your application?

    Also, I can not find the file that you attached on our website. Can you send me the web page where you found this file. I would like to fix this if it is publically available.
  • 0 in reply to Nikhil Gupta (Product Folder Models)
    Prodigy 130 points
    > Can you simply use the TSC file on the web and modify it for your application?
    NO
    The BUG in the figure above happens. I can not edit it. That is not just related to the LMG5200, but to any component I create from bare SPICE code. Or to any imported or copied symbol I edit.
    Whenever I need to arrange pins, the symbol becomes useless. And it is naturally hard to use when autogenerated without touchup.

    >lso, I can not find the file that you attached on our website. Can you send me the web page where y
    ?? I did not attach any file. I gave you the link. I googled it when searching previous discussions. I believe, it was here: e2e.ti.com/.../2020450