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Linux/WL1835MODCOM8B: WL1835 performance

vijay
Intellectual 290 points

Part Number: WL1835MODCOM8B
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: WL1835

Tool/software: Linux

Do TI has the performance details( Maximum data transfer rate and  range) tested/available for WL1835 when used in the board WL1835MODCOM8B ? it is needed to check against the custom board performance.

Thanks

Vijay

  • 0
    TI__Mastermind 29361 points
    Vijay,

    What kind of performance details are you looking for? For example, throughput? Sensitivity? Output power?

    BR,
    Vihang
  • 0 in reply to Vihang Parmar
    Intellectual 290 points

    Vihang,

    I am looking for the throughput details of  WL1835MODCOM8B which uses the on board chip antenna from TDK. The throughput which measured using firmware for FCC/ETSI certification.

    I have the custom board which has the same layout of WL1835MODCOM8B  and TDK chip antenna. Throughput is very poor and I would like to know the tested data from TI with this configuration.

    Thanks

    Vijay

  • 0 in reply to vijay
    Intellectual 290 points
    Also when this same on-chip antenna is mounted on add-on board and connected through the cable/u.fl connector, the throughput is improved. Not sure how it is. Do throughput can change due to Antenna location and PCB trace Vs cable ?
  • 0 in reply to vijay
    TI__Mastermind 20285 points

    Hi,

    Your description is not enough to understand what is the difference between your board and the WL1835MODCOM8B.

    Are you using the exact same TI module?:

    In addidion, did you use wlconf to configure your wl18xx-conf.bin based on the module type,number of antennas in your setup etc?:

    Please check section 2 of this document:

    Best Regards,

    Eyal

  • 0 in reply to Eyal Reizer
    Intellectual 290 points
    Eyal,

    My custom board has WL1835MODGBMOCT module which is connected to TDK's ANT016008LCD2442MA1 chip antenna. It is routed in same PCB RF trace length as in WL1835MODCOM8B from WIFI chip to antenna. Also has u.fl connector option for external antenna. So custom board and WL1835MODCOM8B has same parts, RF trace to antenna and 50 ohm trace impedance. In custom board, there are other peripherals and controllers are available and it is 8 layer board.

    Yes, we used the wl18xx-conf.bin based on the module type,number of antennas in our setup.
    We already referred this document and done same as said in this document. www.ti.com/.../swra489.pdf

    But in the custom board, throughput is very poor.

    we also have one add-on PCB which has this same chip antenna with u.fl connector option. We connected the custom board's wifi module to this add-on board using u.fl cable. In this configuration, the throughput is improved. Do throughput will change with respect to antenna location ?

    Also I need - throughput data of WL1835MODCOM8B board which uses the TDK's ANT016008LCD2442MA1 chip antenna.

    Thanks
    Vijay
  • 0 in reply to vijay
    TI__Genius 13710 points
    Hi Vijay,

    The fact that you are using the U.FL connect to an antenna on a different board tells me that you have an RF issue on your PCB. That is the RF trace going to the TDK antenna is either not correct, poorly matched, or the antenna layout does not follow the manufactures guideline.

    Also throughput data should be tested in a controlled environment to ensure that you have the expected values. When in a normal environment, office, etc, you may have reduced throughput numbers. Note that as part of certification throughput is not a test. What we check is the output power.

    So before we get to throughput being the issue a few things should be checked:

    1) Can you get to the same output powers conducted as what is in our certification documents or datasheet? This will be indicative of a matching issue if the power is lower
    2) Break the connection of the antenna and the module and look back into the antenna with its matching network. Do you see a good RL (<-15dB) for the band of interest? Do the same looking back into the TI module.

    The above 2 should be the first debug steps before a throughput test.

    Thanks
    Riz
  • 0 in reply to Rizwan Murji
    Intellectual 290 points

    Riz,

    The RF trace is well matched to 50 ohm controlled impedance as recommended by PCB manufacturer and has followed as per TI reference design in length and antenna position. So it have same performance as like TI reference design.

    In general, in this EVM, do chip antenna always under performed when compared to another certified antennas ?

    Do TI doesn't have any throughput data for this chip antenna at all, even though it is not part of certification process ?

    I didn't quite understand the statement "2) Break the connection of the antenna and the module and look back into the antenna with its matching network. Do you see a good RL (<-15dB) for the band of interest? Do the same looking back into the TI module." Can you detail what actually it means ?

    Regards

    Vijay

  • 0 in reply to vijay
    Intellectual 290 points

    Riz,

    Can you please comment on above

    Regards

    Vijay

  • 0 in reply to vijay
    TI__Genius 13710 points
    Hi Vijay,

    Please see my comments below:

    The RF trace is well matched to 50 ohm controlled impedance as recommended by PCB manufacturer and has followed as per TI reference design in length and antenna position. So it have same performance as like TI reference design.
    [RM] Can you provide the measured output powers conducted as I would like to compare against our datasheet and certification reports for confirmation.

    In general, in this EVM, do chip antenna always under performed when compared to another certified antennas ?
    [RM] hard to say, each antenna has its own radiated pattern. The peak gain is only a reference, it comes down to the orientation of the antenna compared to where the AP is, for example. We provide the options for customers so they can choose what is best for their application. We have tried to provide what we feel are good options for the customer.

    Do TI doesn't have any throughput data for this chip antenna at all, even though it is not part of certification process ?
    [RM] This is not part of the certification process but is dependent on the environment. You can expect mas throughput when in a controlled environment such as a shield room and best ling of sight to the antenna. for 2.4GHz MIMO you can expect a max throughout of 100Mbps UDP

    I didn't quite understand the statement "2) Break the connection of the antenna and the module and look back into the antenna with its matching network. Do you see a good RL (<-15dB) for the band of interest? Do the same looking back into the TI module." Can you detail what actually it means ?
    [RM] When performing a conducted measurement of the output power of the module you need to ensure that the Antenna and its matching components are not included. You cannot simply add a Probe with out physically disconnecting it or the impedance will change making the output power incorrect. So you want to cut the trace before the antenna matching. Now you have 2 sections. One is the RF from the antenna and the other is antenna to the input of the matching component (physically disconnected from each other). Then you can add an RF cable an each side to look at the module RF or the match to the antenna.

    I hope this helps.

    Thanks,
    RIz
  • 0 in reply to Rizwan Murji
    Intellectual 290 points

    Hi Riz,

    Thanks for the reply. And here are my comments inline below.

    The RF trace is well matched to 50 ohm controlled impedance as recommended by PCB manufacturer and has followed as per TI reference design in length and antenna position. So it have same performance as like TI reference design.
    [RM] Can you provide the measured output powers conducted as I would like to compare against our datasheet and certification reports for confirmation.

    [VJ] Let me check on the output power. Currently I don't have it.


    In general, in this EVM, do chip antenna always under performed when compared to another certified antennas ?
    [RM] hard to say, each antenna has its own radiated pattern. The peak gain is only a reference, it comes down to the orientation of the antenna compared to where the AP is, for example. We provide the options for customers so they can choose what is best for their application. We have tried to provide what we feel are good options for the customer.

    [VJ] Understood.

    Do TI doesn't have any throughput data for this chip antenna at all, even though it is not part of certification process ?
    [RM] This is not part of the certification process but is dependent on the environment. You can expect mas throughput when in a controlled environment such as a shield room and best ling of sight to the antenna. for 2.4GHz MIMO you can expect a max throughout of 100Mbps UDP

    [VJ] Understood.

    I didn't quite understand the statement "2) Break the connection of the antenna and the module and look back into the antenna with its matching network. Do you see a good RL (<-15dB) for the band of interest? Do the same looking back into the TI module." Can you detail what actually it means ?
    [RM] When performing a conducted measurement of the output power of the module you need to ensure that the Antenna and its matching components are not included. You cannot simply add a Probe with out physically disconnecting it or the impedance will change making the output power incorrect. So you want to cut the trace before the antenna matching. Now you have 2 sections. One is the RF from the antenna and the other is antenna to the input of the matching component (physically disconnected from each other). Then you can add an RF cable an each side to look at the module RF or the match to the antenna.

    [VJ] Let me check if it can be done.

    Regards

    Vijay