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Z-Stack Lighting: Multiple Remotes

Sjef de Krijger
Expert 1405 points
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: Z-STACK, CC2530

I've been looking to touchlink another remote into my existing ZLL network, but with no success. Is this even possible?

My setup is a sampleremote that has touchlinked to a couple of zlights. Now I have another factory new sampleremote (all based on Z-Stack Lighting 1.0.1)  that I would like to be a part of the existing network. So I tried sending the touchlink RPC to the NFN sampleremote and nothing happens. Sending the touchlink to the FN sampleremote and also, nothing happens.

I am able to 'steal' a zlight with the FN remote, though. But that is not what I want, I want the FN remote to become a part of the existing network so that it can now be used to control the Zlights as well.

Is this possible? If yes, how to proceed? Any documentation pointers?

  • 0
    TI__Genius 9180 points

    Sjef,

        Yes this is possible, and was intentional in the spec. You need to initiate touch link on both initiators at the same time. This was hard to implement in the spec, due to the timing of the initiators being on the same channels to see each other’s Scan Req/Rsp, this is why the initiator sends 4 Scan Req on channel 11 before moving on. So when 2 remotes have their button pressed to initiate remote to remote TL it gives more time on ch11 for the remotes to see the Scn Req/Rsp.

    This results in remotes being able to TL as long as they initiate the TL at around the same time, this can be difficult with remotes from different vendors if the time between button press and start of TL transaction are different.

    I also notice that you mentioned " touchlink RPC", are you trying to do this over a Host interface? This could add timing variations that make this difficult to achieve.

    Regards, TC.

  • 0 in reply to TopCat
    Expert 1405 points

    Topcat,

    Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately I've not had success touchlinking the two initiators. I tried an experiment without the RPC call as well (using a button and a LED to indicate when the TL starts). I can see a number of SCAN_RSP's on the FN initiator but that's all. It has not been possible to join another remote, even after trying over 50 times by pressing the buttons at the same time.

    Could it be that the timing requirements are much more strict than those possible to reach by hand? That kind of rules out the addition of remotes by consumers. So I think it must be something else? Have you ever tried this scenario and did it work? Edit: It should work, it's in the Z-Stack Lighting Sample Application User Guide.

    I got it to work with both remotes as end-devices. With one or all of the remotes as a router (for host interface purposes) there's no touchlinking another remote.

    The question now is: Why won't it work when one of the remotes is a router? Should I add some code somewhere?

    Thank you,

    Sjef.

  • 0 in reply to Sjef de Krijger
    TI__Genius 9180 points

    Sjef,

        That’s correct, it is in the Sample Apps Users guide and was tested during development and validation testing. It is also in the ZLL test spec and as the sample App was the ZLL Certified should have also been tested independently by a test house. I have also tried this myself, but not sure what the exact release/pre-release version it was and it was with different HW.

    This is sometimes tricky on different HW platforms where the timing varies between remotes, but should not be too difficult on the same remote platform.

    I am sure you are aware, but make sure one remote is FN, it is not a valid usecase to do Remote to Remote TL when both remotes are NFN.

    Which HW platform are you using? Can you try with the SmartRF05EB if you have not already?

    Can you capture a trace with the TI packet sniffer? You should be able to see the timing and if Initiator remote is on the same channel when the Scan Rsp comes.

    Another thing to try is varying the timing, press the FN remote button very slightly before the initiator, and visa vers.

    Regards, TC.

  • 0 in reply to TopCat
    Expert 1405 points

    TopCat,

    Thank you, I got it working with the original firmware (the remotes are end-devices). I changed the firmware to build a router device for the remote control and that breaks the functionality.

    Sjef.

  • 0 in reply to Sjef de Krijger
    Expert 1595 points
    Hi all,

    I am trying to setup multiple remotes in the network but I am confused by what is happening. Based on the discussion above, does it mean that I have to initiate touchlink on both remotes at the same time? And one of them has to be already registered in the network and the other has to be factor new? Or I can touchlink with both remotes being factory new? In the Z-Stack Lighting Sample Application User's Guide (SWRU334), it says this:

    In order to add another Remote to the network, the new remote being brought into the network should initially be in Factory New state. Then a touchlink should be performed between the factory new and the existing Non-Factory-New (remote currently in the network) before the new remote is used in the existing network.

    Here is what I have tried so far. I performed touchlink on RemoteA with a Zlight. And I can turn on and off the light. Then I have a factory new RemoteB (I presume by re-flashing it with firmware, it will be in factory new state). I brought RemoteB close to RemoteA and press the touchlink button on RemoteB but nothing happens, I don't hear a buzzer sound that indicates a successful touchlink. However if I press the touchlink button on both RemoteA and RemoteB at the same time, both remotes will have a buzzer sound. I presume this is to indicate both remotes have been touchlinked? But now RemoteA cannot controller the Zlight anymore. RemoteB doesn't control the Zlight too.

    Any help or comments? Thanks!


    Kian
  • 0 in reply to Kian
    Expert 1595 points
    I think I kinda got it to work, but there are still some bugs. My previous problem has been solved partially. I have RemoteA that is already touchlinked to Zlight. RemoteB is factory new. I pressed the touchlink button on both remotes. Now I can use RemoteB to control the Zlight (Previously this was not working maybe because of a faulty CC2530. After I change to a new CC2530 this worked). But RemoteA still cannot control the Zlight. Then I have to touchlink RemoteA with the ZLight so that I can use RemoteA and RemoteB together. Is this normal? Or after I touchlink both remotes, they both should work immediately?
  • 0 in reply to Kian
    TI__Genius 9180 points
    For Remote to Remote TouchLink to work:

    Remote A should be made Non Factory New by touch linking a light (LightA). With LightA out of touchlink range (>2m), hold RemoteA close to a Factory New RemoteB, press both buttons simultaneously, if both RemoteA and RemoteB start touchline scan at the same time and no other Light is in touchline range then RemoteA will pull RemoteB into the network. At the network level RemoteB will find LightA as its parent router, but at the application level it will have no knowledge of any Lights and will not be able to control them. At this point RemoteA can still control LightA, RemoteB is on the network but can not control LightA. To get RemoteB to control LightA 1 of 2 things need to happen:

    1. RemoteB Touchlink LightA to add it to the target list and control it. If RemoteB is on the same network as LightA the light will identify and RemoteB will add it to the target list, the light will remain on the network and still be controllable from the other Remote previously touch linked.

    2. Use remote cloning to transfer all target (Light) info from RemoteA to RemoteB, the TI ZLL SDK supports this but it is not included in the remote sample application. You will need to use a combination of TI documentation and ZLL Spec to implement this correctly using the touchlink Utility commands supported in the ZStck-Lighting SDK.

    However there are a number of scenarios that could happen to make Remote-to-Remote touchlink not work as expect.

    1. The Light is in touchlink range when touch linking the remote. RemoteB my touchlink the Light and steel it to create a new network, LightA will blink to identify during touchlink , remoteB will have control over the Light and RemoteA will no longer be able to control the Light.

    2. RemoteA and RemoteB touchlink Scans are not aligned. To help Remote to Remote TL the spec mandates 5 scan reqs on ch11 to make more chance of remotes that start remote-to-remote TL at the same time find each other. However if not aligned then 1 remote may move to another scan channel and miss the other remote, and TL will fail. If TL fails and RemoteB is still Factory New when you touchlink LightA, then LightA will be stolen, RemoteB will control it, but RemoteA will no longer have control.

    3. RemoteA and RemoteB are Factory New, or RemoteA and RemoteB are Non Factory New. This is mandated to fail by the spec.

    4. RemoteB is Factory New and RemoteA is None Factory New, but RemoteA is part of a HA network. This is mandated to fail by the spec.

    Regards,
    TC.